Capsaicin Tested On Surgical Wounds

Ponca City, We Love You writes "Bite a hot pepper, and after the burn your tongue goes numb. The Baltimore Sun reports that Capsaicin, the chemical that gives chili peppers their fire, is being dripped directly into open wounds during highly painful operations, bathing surgically exposed nerves in a high enough dose to numb them for weeks. As a result patients suffer less pain and require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal. 'We wanted to exploit this numbness,' says Dr. Eske Aasvang, a pain specialist who is testing the substance. Capsaicin works by binding to C fibers called TRPV1, the nerve endings responsible for long-lasting aching and throbbing pain. Experiments are under way involving several hundred patients undergoing various surgeries, including knee and hip replacements using an ultra-purified version of Capsaicin to avoid infection. Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn."

Lasik

[Pres. Ronald Reagan (659566)]

I had this done after my Lasik surgery. Worked well.

Jalapenos

[Soporific (595477)]

Sometimes after eating Jalapenos it feels like I have a surgical wound the next day!

~S

Re:Jalapenos

[couchslug (175151)]

"Sometimes after eating Jalapenos it feels like I have a surgical wound the next day!"

That's an effect of the Goatsaicin.

Re:Jalapenos

[p00pyd00py (1174655)]

If a Jalapeno hurts you then you better not eat a 'hot' pepper. On the Scoville scale a Jalapeno is only about 5000 scoville units. A Cayenne is about 30,000. A Habanero is rougly 350,000. And the new record holder is the Naga Jookla at around 1,000,000. Go eat a Naga and see how you feel afterwards, wimp. :)

Re:Jalapenos

[[ Nighthawk ] (16928)]

Naga Jolokia pepper [wikipedia.org]

Re:

[Soporific (595477)]

As all hot pepper eaters should know, it's not the heat in the pepper, it's the juice. Habanero's are fine the next day, but the Jalapeno has quite a bit of juice that doesn't seem to go away. :)

~S

Re:Jalapenos

[p00pyd00py (1174655)]

"As all hot pepper eaters should know, it's not the heat in the pepper, it's the juice".

Actually this is not true. It is the Capsicain Oil that makes a pepper hot and not the 'juice' (which I take it you mean the watery part of a pepper). The saying that 'hurts going in hurts going out' (referring to going poopy) is pretty much true. But if you eat as much pepper extract as I do it hurts when you pee as well. I admit I take it to the extreme. I use Mad Dog 357 Collector's edition sauce with a 650,000 scoville rating at least 2 or 3 days a week (all meals for those days) and often poor WAY too much in it and think to myself..what the fuck did i just do?! However, even after the wonderfull pain I end up adding even more.

1 lb of hamburger meat
1.5 packets of Ortega Taco seasoning .5 packet of fajita seasoning
1 full teaspoon of Mad Dog 357 Collector's edition

Cook, eat and get ready for some insane heat and one of the most painful tinkles you ever dreamed of. =) Damn I love it HOT!!!

Re:Jalapenos

[ddrichardson (869910)]

I'd mod this up but there is no +1 Masochist

Re:Jalapenos

[Mister Whirly (964219)]

Actually, it is the membranes that hold the seeds that contain most of the "heat".

"Capsaicin (pronounced cap-SAY-iss-in) is a powerful chemical present in hot peppers that irritates certain nerves in the human nose and mouth. It is most highly concentrated in a hot pepper's central membrane, which holds the seeds."
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=950DE3DD1E39F93BA35752C1A96F948260 [nytimes.com]

"The hotter the pepper, the more capsaicin it contains, most of it concentrated in the membrane or rib. Removing both this membrane and the seeds can significantly reduce the overall heat level"
http://www.sallys-place.com/food/columns/ferray_fiszer/peppers.htm [sallys-place.com]

Re:Jalapenos

[cayenne8 (626475)]

Hmm....so, does this mean we'll soon be seeing Taco Bell in ICU??

"I've got man over here in serious pain...I need two chalupas STAT, with FIRE Sauce!!!

Speaking of...why doesn't taco bell every bring back the 'Wild' Sauce they used to wheel out every summer or so awhile back. That stuff actually had a bit of 'kick' to it......

Re:

[Luyseyal (3154)]

Speaking of...why doesn't taco bell every bring back the 'Wild' Sauce they used to wheel out every summer or so awhile back.

It was cheaper and faster to switch to prepackaged sauce versus the warmed-up sauce in the back (which frankly tasted better... not that Taco Bell is "good"). The preparers don't have to manage the sauce in the back any more and can crank out however many items they need faster.

Eliminating the old-style green sauce is what stopped my parents going to Taco Bell.

-l

Hemorrhoid surgery

[goombah99 (560566)]

is what came to mind. Now it's hard to sit down.

Re:

[arcade (16638)]

Drink milk.

Seriously. Drink a nice glass of milk if you want to get rid of the burning. Water does not help. Milk does (due to the fat). Drinking pure olive oil should also help (but taste like shit:).

Capsaicin is soluble in oil, not water, or something.

Volunteers

[calebt3 (1098475)]

Volunteers are under anesthesia so they don't feel the initial burn.

But I like the fiery feeling in my cuts, you insensitive clods!

Or am I the one who is insensitive, now that my nerves are numb?

Re:Volunteers

[slickwillie (34689)]

I had a mild case of Poison Oak this past summer. I wasn't getting any relief from the normal treatments, so I poured some Cayenne pepper powder on the rash. It almost immediately relieved the itching and the area felt cool. I think it also sped up the healing. The powder was too messy so I got some capsaicin cream that was intended for arthritis. It worked almost as well.

anesthetic prevents horrible pain

[wizardforce (1005805)]

they use a mix of anesthetic and the capsaicin so that you'r not in horrible pain. The nerves are over-stimulated in a way, this leads to them being numbed [like after eating too many spicy peppers] and it has already been used as a topical treatment for pain, I think there's even one pain treatment available to the public already based on this.

Re:anesthetic prevents horrible pain

[mrbluze (1034940)]

I think there's even one pain treatment available to the public already based on this.

Yes, an ointment/cream for neuralgia due to shingles [webmd.com].

In other news worlds hottest pepper "discovered"

[psyclone (187154)]

The hottest pepper record [kuro5hin.org] has been broken.

In the Scoville Organoleptic Test, the Bhut Jolokia [wikipedia.org] pepper scores over 1,000,000

Burning thing of fire

[dbIII (701233)]

For several years Capsaicin has been used to treat a type of male incontinence. Squirting a bit of it up a catheter apparently is enough to force some of the nerves in the bladder into the right state to stop the muscles being over-relaxed.

Re:Burning thing of fire

[PhoenixOne (674466)]

If every time I peed, fire shot out of my junk, I would be strongly motivated not to pee.

Re:Burning thing of fire

[JustOK (667959)]

Wimp. It would be cool. Instead of writing your name in the snow,you could write it in wood or metal.

Anesthesia notes

[neapolitan (1100101)]

Very interesting. I can say as a doctor I've never seen this used before though, but it reminded me of a few things:

During surgery the patient is unconscious, and thus feels no pain, but good surgeons recognize that local anesthesia is still necessary. It's a bit counterintuitive, and I remember being puzzled back in medical school that the surgeons would still numb the area before doing any work despite the patient being unresponsive regardless. The thought is that nerves are damaged and there are changes / responses to the painful stimulus that persist despite the individual being unconscious; in a way, you still have neuronal pain signals if you don't give local anesthesia. It also prevents the patient from waking up with pain in the operative site before you can give other types of painkillers.

Lidocaine (and capsaicin to some degree) would prevent the nerves from ever signaling -- they block the sodium channel that is necessary for nerves to fire. No firing -- no pain, *and* no no neuronal changes, and hopefully no long term pain. Lidocaine wears off after 2 hours or so, while it seems that capsaicin has much longer densitization effects.

Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience? :)

Re:

[ScrewMaster (602015)]

Well, in the movie Under Siege II: Dark Territory, the mercenary leader Penn gets a faceful of the stuff. He then proceeds to take the canister away from the female prisoner ... and use it for breath spray.

Re:Anesthesia notes

[Puff of Logic (895805)]

Of note, capsaicin is also used in "pepper spray" self-defense products advertised to women in particular. I wonder if one could become numb to this after repeated sprayings. Hmmm, anybody on slashdot may be able to answer this from experience? :)

Speaking as an ex-law enforcement officer, I can say that there are numerous reports of frequent fliers (if you get my meaning) being relatively insensitive to the effects of being sprayed. Although I can't cite personal experience with such a phenomenon, that it was included in official training sessions suggests at least a modicum of truth. Rather more anecdotally, I've heard some officers claim that individuals who habitually consume large quantities of spicy foods are also less susceptible to the effects of OC spray, although the blinding/irritation effect seemed unchanged. I'm not sure I give much credence to the latter notion, however.

cheers.

Re:Anesthesia notes

[Khyber (864651)]

For those of us that grow and consume habaneros, unless it's purified capsaicin oil touching our skin/mucous membranes/eyes we won't be bothered. I've taken 25% capsaicin spray to the face and the worst it did was clear my sinuses and make my eyes water.

Re:Anesthesia notes

[jmitchel!jmitchel.co (254506)]

Interesting note (that I heard about this in a more reputable place... Nature?): per http://www.efluxmedia.com/news_Capsaicin_Mixed_with_Lidocaine_Gives_Less_Risky_Anesthetic_09293.html [efluxmedia.com]

Capsaicin mixed with a lidocaine derivative produced an anesthetic that affected only pain transmitting neurons, without affecting motor neurons. The lidocaine derivative was unable to penetrate nerve cells on its own, but the capsaicin opened pores that are only present in pain neurons.

IANAD, and only in rats for now.

But that's the best part!

[sqrt(2) (786011)]

...require fewer narcotic painkillers as they heal

hmmm, I think I'll pass on the pepper sauce, doc. Just keep the vicodin coming.

Re:

[ResidntGeek (772730)]

That's exactly what I was thinking. Who the hell wants _less_ of an opioid in their blood??

Re:But that's the best part!

[Detritus (11846)]

While the drugs may give you a nice buzz, they also can have the side effect of shutting down your gastro-intestinal tract. Getting things moving again can be a real pain in the ass.

Re:

[by Anonymous Coward]

I've been taking morphine everyday for about 6 years. People all think you get a buzz from it, but you don't. They have controlled release stuff nowadays too. I think I had a slight buzz once (maybe twice) during the first day I took it. And I'm not on low doses (hell, I already OD'ed on it, and I wasn't buzzed at all, I just struggled to keep breathing).

It just makes you not wanna kill yourself so the pain ends (chronic pain is like being tortured 24/7 with no relief, you eventually want it to stop, no mat

Re:

[bmwm3nut (556681)]

I think a lot of that depends on your biochemistry. I'm a runner and I get runner's highs very easily and they last for quite some time after working out. It turns out that the endorphins created during exercise are opioids (or at least similar to opioids) and I have lots of opioid receptors in my brain. After two different outpatient surgeries I had I was given opioids post-op and my wife tells me (I don't remember) that I really loved them. She's also had narcotics and they just make her nauseated and

SiChuan pepper works on my mouth

[dwater (72834)]

I've found that this :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sichuan_pepper [wikipedia.org]

works well as an anesthetic. It's commonly use in Gong Bao Ji Ding (US:Kung Pao Chicken) in China, and, along with ginger, makes it way more tasty than the poor imitation available in the west.

Re:SiChuan pepper works on my mouth

[Bryan Ischo (893)]

I can personally attest to the effects of the sichuan pepper, having eaten dishes made with this pepper in the Hubei region of China. I have enjoyed hot peppers of a variety of types in many of the foods I have eaten over time and consider myself to be a real lover of hot foods. The sichuan peppers really threw me for a loop though because they are the only peppers that have ever had a numbing effect on my mouth. Sure they are hot, but not noticeably hotter than alot of other peppers; but they have a slightly peculiar secondary flavor, and a strong numbing effect.

The food in the Hubei province is really, really, REALLY good. Having travelled throughout many parts of China and enjoyed the diverse food in all the places I went, Hubei food was definitely at the top of my list. The sichuan peppers weren't the reason for that; they were OK but nothing special. It was the type of food, the zestiness of it, the really unique ingredients (beans in Chinese food? How weird!). There is a chain of Hubei food restaurants in Beijing called Jiu Tou Niau (not sure about the spelling there), which means "nine headed bird", and they are just awesome.

How could this be used in poor countries?

[Mex (191941)]

Does this mean that in poor populations where peppers are common (such as in Mexico), they could be used to numb or sterilize wounds? Or would this be counter-productive?

I know many people who don't have access to a first aid kit but who eat peppers every day.

So...

[Comatose51 (687974)]

Pouring salt on someone's wounds is not okay but pepper is fine?

Re:So...

[MarkRose (820682)]

Yes, but only when done by a medical professional. It has to be Dr Pepper.

Re:So...

[mikael (484)]

As opposed to a Pan Galactic Gargle Blaster [wikipedia.org], which is like having your brains smashed out by a slice of lemon wrapped round a large gold brick.

If you read that as Gac Palantic Barsle Glagter, then your Babel fish needs replacing...

Bright Ideas : #?

[by Anonymous Coward]

This goes along with some other unlikely firsts, eh?

"Let's eat those things from the chickens butt, but first, put them in hot water for a while."

"I bet the white liquid from the cows teet goes great with cookies, let's have a go!"

And now:

"Hmm, this guy is in serious pain...let's pour salsa in him!"

Re:Bright Ideas : #?

[R2.0 (532027)]

On the shores of the Chesapeake: "Hey, inside this nasty shell which sliced my hand to ribbons there's a big glob of what looks like snot. Got any lemon juice?"

Unforeseen consequences

[Gorimek (61128)]

Who will protect these patients from spice loving cannibals after they leave the hospital?

Capsaicin, the new wonder drug?

[niktemadur (793971)]

Capsaicin is sold as ground chili pepper in capsule form at health stores, and seems to work very well at stimulating cardiac functions in general, as well as unclogging arteries in the long run. Plus, considering that it's natural, with none of the weird side effects that come with most pharmaceuticals, Capsaicin pills work as a supplement to standard medical treatments.

I'm sure they'll find new properties of Capsaicin as time goes on. However, the corporate rub is that Capsaicin, like hemp, is a naturally occurring substance and therefore cannot be patented... unless (bite your tongue) they 'modify' the current laws.

Foolish Endeavors

[truckaxle (883149)]

I once consumed a chip full of this hot sauce [sammcgees.com] and my tongue was numb for a day. A day later it payed the compliment to the other end.

Useful advice.

[niktemadur (793971)]

There's a lot of posters writing about their experiences after eating habaneros and the like, either out of curiosity or on a dare.
Well, here's a great tip next time you're on a dare, or in a thai or mexican restaurant: Keep a piece of candy nearby. If the burning sensation becomes too much to bear, unwrap the candy and pop it in your mouth, the sudden sugar coating on the tongue will overwhelm the taste buds with a near-opposite sensation, canceling most of the pain.

Re:old?

[Propaganda13 (312548)]

"LIFE'S LITTLE QUESTIONS"
SHOW 904
http://www.pbs.org/saf/transcripts/transcript904.htm [pbs.org]

Re:

[Ibag (101144)]

Except you're not. This is about how capsaicin can be used to prevent long term pain in the weeks after surgery, while that one was about how it can be used to deliver new anesthetics that won't leave you numb. You don't even have to have read the articles to know this, just the summary. Why people post when they only read titles is entirely beyond me.

Re:Haven't I seen this before?

[swillden (191260)]

Oh yeah! I'm experiencing dupe-ja-vu [slashdot.org]!

Nope, you haven't seen it before. That non-dupe is about a completely different anesthesia-related use of capsaicin. The purpose there is to enable the distribution of an anesthetic that only works from the inside into the cells.

The purpose here is to give the nerve endings such an intense blast of pain that they go numb for days or weeks. This would be horrendously agonizing to the patient, but they're already under anesthetic and so don't notice it. Then, those nerve endings being numb for a few weeks reduces the need for post-surgery narcotics.

Same drug, same general area of research (anesthetics), completely different usage.

Re:Numb for weeks?!?

[RasputinAXP (12807)]

Except if they're using medical-grade extract of capsaicin, you're talking a Scoville Rating of 100K-300K for a Habanero pepper. Nordihydrocapsaicin is 9.1 million Scovilles, and pure capsaicin is at least 15 million.

In short, I think the doctors and chemists know more than you do.

Re:

[RudeIota (1131331)]

In short, I think the doctors and chemists know more than you do.

I sure hope they do!

I appreciate the informative reply - only thing missing is a link for the lazy. ;)

BTW, what happened to Slashdot? I thought I was there, but then I got a worthwhile reply...?

Re:

[packeteer (566398)]

-1 troll

girlfriend reference on slashdot...

3

Re:

[chartreuse (16508)]

Somehow modding the above as "flamebait" seems extra-appropriate.