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MIT Engineers World's First Schizophrenic Mice

Posted by kdawson on Tue Jul 31, 2007 06:55 AM
from the beautiful-little-minds dept.
Biotech Science
Frosty Piss writes "MIT researchers have created a schizophrenic mouse that pinpoints a gene variation predisposing people to schizophrenia. Research with the mouse may lead to the first genetically targeted drugs for the disease, which affects 1 percent of the population worldwide. This is the first study that uses animals who demonstrate an array of symptoms observed in schizophrenic patients to identify specific genes that predispose people to the disease."
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  • Wrong. (Score:5, Funny)

    by EveryNickIsTaken (1054794) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @06:57AM (#20055509)
    Pinky (or was it the Brain?) was the first schizophrenic mouse.

  • This may be a really ignorant question, but... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by blcamp (211756) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @06:58AM (#20055515) Homepage
    ...exactly how would a human *know* if a mouse is schizophrenic?

    • The mouse was seen using an axe hacking through a mouse sized door, shouting .. "Here's Pinky!"

    • By deleting a single gene in a small portion of the brains of mice, researchers at UT Southwestern Medical Center found that the animals were affected in a way resembling schizophrenia in humans.

      After the gene was removed, the animals, which had been trained to use external cues to look for chocolate treats buried in sand, couldn't learn a similar task, the researchers report in a paper appearing in today's issue of The Journal of Neuroscience.

      Dr. Robert Greene, professor of psychiatry, and his colleagues have found that eliminating a gene in a mouse's brain creates memory problems that are reminiscent of schizophrenia. T he researchers deleted the gene, which codes for a part of a protein involved in passing signals between nerve cells needed for learning and memory. When a similar protein is blocked by drugs in humans, it leads to a psychotic state similar to schizophrenia.

      ORIGINAL [medicalnewstoday.com]
      Technically, MIT wasn't first:
      Schizophrenia - Mice With Defective Memory May Hold Clues
      Main Category: Schizophrenia News
      Article Date: 23 Jan 2006 - 21:00 PDT
      • Hmm... you know, that doesn't actually sound similar at all to me. What they said there, basically, is that they made the mice stupid. Maybe there's some other stuff at work, but not being able to learn any more looks the closest to genuine stupidity.

        That's not at all similar to schizophrenia in humans. A lot of schizophrenic humans are actually highly intelligent, and perfectly able to both lean and do (more than) simple associations. Their brain does work wrong, to different degrees and with a very broad
    • Not a bad question. This article title is actually misleading - this is NOT the first model of a 'schizophrenic mouse'; it is the first one to identify a specific gene involved.
      Animal models of these complex psychiatric diseases are always a bit questionable. This one seems to have bad memory formation, attention problems, and poor social skills. The researchers believe that's enough to call it a model of schizophrenia, but that's very difficult to say for sure.

      • Animal models of these complex psychiatric diseases are always a bit questionable. This one seems to have bad memory formation, attention problems, and poor social skills. The researchers believe that's enough to call it a model of schizophrenia, but that's very difficult to say for sure.


        Right. These are just 'schizotypical' symptomps. Many other disorders feature schizotypical behaviour, including several developmental disorders, such as multiple-complex developmental disorder [google.com] and other disorders like shizotypical personality disorder [psyonline.nl], which feature schizotypical behaviour but are not true schizophrenia. I suspect that these mice have more of the latter disorders (which are thought to be genetic) rather than actual schizophrenia (which may or may not be genetic).

        • rather than actual schizophrenia (which may or may not be genetic).
          Actually twin studies indicate schizophrenia has a heritability factor of perhaps 80% (Wikipedia [wikipedia.org]).
      • This one seems to have bad memory formation, attention problems, and poor social skills.

        Wait. Are we talking about a mouse, or a guy with an iPhone at Starbucks?

      • So, I'm curious, what's the difference between being schizophrenic (or otherwise having some recongized mental illness), and just "being a dick"?

        (I mean, *other* than that the latter posts on /. with the name "UbuntuDupe".)
        • Well, being schizophrenic isn't the same as being a sociopath, or even the more fuzzy "being a dick".

          A paranoid schizophrenic for example has (at least according to one theory), a pretty fuzzy line between fantasy and reality. At any rate, stuf originating purely in their imagination or beliefs gets mixed with the reality. They might hear voices, see stuff that isn't there, or feel or smell stuff that noone else can perceive. Where you might just imagine telling someone where to shove it, a schizophrenic mi
          • Well, if they know that the mice are hearing voices, I'm more interested in the technology they used to access their consciousness and read their qualia, than in mental health treatment...
            • Well, if they know that the mice are hearing voices, I'm more interested in the technology they used to access their consciousness and read their qualia, than in mental health treatment...

              Perhaps they're hearing squeaks? And the researchers observe that the schizophrenic mice will suddenly stop, listen, and then rush off to build a model of the Devil's Tower out of cheese.

    • I...exactly how would a human *know* if a mouse is schizophrenic?


      Agreed.

      For one thing, it may be just upset that someone messed with its DNA ;)
    • ...exactly how would a human *know* if a mouse is schizophrenic? Simple. If it plays pool against itself, talks to invisible friends and hangs its cage full of clippings of newspapers and magazines and delivers an envelope full of them to a drop box once in a while, it's schizophrenic.
    • does the mouse have a secret stash of lots of old newspapers with scribbled details showing how secret messages are encoded in them? does the mouse have an invisible friend? does the mouse show a novel grasp of game theory and in fact has a nobel prize for the study of game theory? is the mouse married to jennifer connolly?
    • ...exactly how would a human *know* if a mouse is schizophrenic?

      The mouse keeps talking to itself and is having paranoid thoughts about "people are out to get him". But the real give away is when the mouse believes it is a researcher in control of a giant computer called "Earth".
    • There are different types of the disease. Catatonic for instance is where the individual does not move (or does not move much).

      The disease is not always your movie split personality.
    • space aliens and cover their heads with tin foil hats.
    • It thought it was a cow.

  • and how do you diagnose this? (Score:2, Informative)

    by Anonymous Coward
    im too lazy to go digging around the article, but diagnosing schizophrenia in a human being ... ok.

    actually they dont even know how to diagnose it exactly.

    "People diagnosed with schizophrenia usually experience a combination of positive (i.e. hallucinations, delusions, racing thoughts), negative (i.e. apathy, lack of emotion, poor or nonexistant social functioning), and cognitive (disorganized thoughts, difficulty concentrating and/or following instructions, difficulty completing tasks, memory problems). "

    h [schizophrenia.com]

  • I read it as "Some group of MIT Engineers are the world's first schizophrenic mice"

    The actual article is interesting, but not NEARLY as interesting as it could have been.

    (it is early still)

  • I'm conflicted (Score:3, Insightful)

    by thatskinnyguy (1129515) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @07:19AM (#20055695)
    I'm all for animal testing and all. I'm no animal rights advocate by a long shot; but intentionally giving mice schizophrenia seems a bit wrong to me. Schizophrenia runs in my family and I want to see a cure as much as anyone else. Therein lies the conflict. I suppose the mouse gets it if the experiment can do some good.

    • Re:I'm conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)

      by HangingChad (677530) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @08:38AM (#20056541) Homepage

      Schizophrenia runs in my family

      That's a tough one. I think it would be worth trading a lot of mice for a cure.

      In the meantime it might be helpful to bring attention to the absolutely abysmal state of mental health care in this country. Something you won't know about unless you or a close relative has a serious mental illness. Half the people you see living on the street are there because they have mental illness and can't navigate the byzantine legal process to get disability benefits. Apparently the right wing thinks they're faking so they not work and drink all day. Even if they could stop trying to self-medicate with alcohol, most wouldn't be able to manage a checkbook even if they could get through the process and there's nowhere for them to go. Your options around here are the crisis line, which is useless, or primary care (the mental hospital). If they don't have health insurance they'll get a T&R (treat and release) and that's how they end up on park benches.

      Most states have closed their assisted living centers and state mental hospitals because of cutbacks in federal funding. Where to you think those people go? They usually get lumped in with people with AIDS and criminals. Great atmosphere for recovery. The druggies steal their meds and they're right back to having street lights sending them messages from the mother ship. It varies. Some states are better than others, but overall mental health care in the US, if you don't have health insurance, sucks ass. That doesn't get much attention, but let them leave "In God We Trust" off a dollar coin and people are all up about that. Hypocrites.

      • I think that most are not on "disability" benefits, but rather they are on social security benefits as strange as that may sound. I have personal experience in the "system" treating such people (I was not the one getting the treatment but a friend). It's a nightmare in itself. The trial and error cocktails of drugs that my friend goes through over and over really sucks. I don't think she will ever be better, but she is really taken care of pretty well as far as having basic needs.. housing, food, medicine

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by Daniel Dvorkin (106857)
      Well, I am an animal rights advocate, of the mild sort; I believe animals have rights, and we should respect those rights. OTOH, I also really like meat. And as far as this type of testing goes, IMO it's entirely a Good Thing.

      There are well-established standards for the treatment of laboratory animals. Any institution that runs an animal lab is supposed to meet rigorous standards for living space, quality of food, cleanliness, etc., and have a veterinarian on staff (or at least on call) to look after the

    • Re:I'm conflicted (Score:5, Insightful)

      by ChrisA90278 (905188) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @10:52AM (#20058469)
      Have you ever watch a wild mouse in the field? Not an easy life. Almost all of them die young. If you watch, they live a life trying to balance fear and starvation. They will go out and forage but they are always looking all around and up. they know instinctivley that they are prey for cats, hawks, foxes and whatever. They have to come out if hiding to eat but if they do the chances are nearly 100% that one day they will be killed and eaten. Mice may actually like cages -- an enclosed space where food magically appears -- heaven _before_ you de, what a deal. Mice are fearful of open spaces and open sky overhead. they prefer to be inside a small enclosed space near a supply of food.

      Humans are built to cover much ground while using little energy. Bipedal locomotion (walking upright on two feet) means you can search a lot of area and don't use up much food/energy in the process. For a million yars our ancestors were hunters and gatherers that search large areas for food. Humans tend to have an instinctive need to move around and don't like confinement.

      We make the mistake of thinking all animals are like humans. Animals that are on the bottom of the food chain are not like us at all.

  • Squeak, squeak squeak!




    [translation: "I'm crazy, and so am I!"]

  • pick your reality (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Jay Carlson (28733) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @07:38AM (#20055887)
    Schizophrenia is hell, and I don't think I'm stretching that much. This is a geek audience, right? Well, let's just consider a world where you can do a scientific experiment and find a result that only you can confirm. Over and over again.

    The standard narrative of schizophrenia that we've all internalized is that it's somehow a weakness of an individual. That can't be true, especially if it can be induced.
    • A weakness can be overcome. I don't think Schizophrenia fits that definition. I hope that this will lead to a good treatment or even a cure.
    • Who suggested that schizophrenia was some kind of mental weakness? Unlike, say, some of the milder affective disorders, where you might argue that it's a nonpathological variation in behavior, most people with schizophrenia are obviously malfunctioning. This runs the gamut from the ones with predominantly positive symptoms (hallucinations, delusions, aggressive tendencies) to the ones with a more negative/cognitive bias (no motivation, no feelings of pleasure or engagement with the real world).

      You don't jus
  • Please pay attention to article

    "MIT Engineers" "World's First Schizophrenic Mice"

    haah... rabid MIT engineers :-).

    Someone need to fix that headline more appropriately.

  • What white mouse _isn't_ schizophrenic? (Score:5, Interesting)

    by fygment (444210) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @08:40AM (#20056571)
    To be a white mouse is to be nestled in an alien environment of metal and bars, forced under threat of punishment to perform acts that have no relation to natural instincts, fed an array of processed and unnatural (to a mouse) foods, all while being watched by alien creatures that frequently whisk away your mouse friends and colleagues who, if they are returned, are often physically and psychologically damaged. Frankly, that any white mouse is considered "sane" by the researchers is a very telling commentary about the mental state of those running the laboratory.

    • On other words, the life of a lab mouse is very much like that of an IT worker. That's not sane either, but we keep doing it day after day ...
  • I'd love to see a follow up article that discussed the practical extensions of this science that was done 4 years ago.

    Hopefully it hasn't just been sitting on a shelf for all this time to only just now become "breaking" news.
    • The article is a fluff piece with no real info, the findings from that study didn't yield anything as its redundant. And there is evidence in an article I read last year in GQ (of all places) that mice are the main targets of the infection that it thought to cause Schizophrenia.

      also here http://www.dvorak.org/blog/?p=12372 [dvorak.org]

      Also the Wikipedia entry point out that a realistic study say that the real infection rate is 0.55% of the population. [I guess we are not as crazy a planet as first mentioned]

      on t

  • Alright.... (Score:3, Funny)

    by PPH (736903) on Tuesday July 31 2007, @12:41PM (#20060151)
    ...who moved my cheese?
    • This is nothing new. My dad worked his life (up here in Canada) as a medical physicist researcher, studying cancer treatment. It was common for them to give cancer to rats, pigs, and dogs and then try to treat them to evaluate the efficacy and safety of new and existing techniques for curing it. We purposefully overdose animals on food additives to test their safety within humans and administer large quantities of drugs to them to determine addictive potential and an approximation of human LD50.

      Whether I ag
      • While all of this is true, remember that the animals are typically sacrificed at the first sign of suffering. The initial tumours are grown and treatment is attempted (or if they are observing the effects of a gene, the tumour is measured), then the animal is sacrificed if there is noticeable discomfort.

        • This is true. My research group is doing this right now with brain tumors. As soon as (a) we have enough data (which usually involves testing treatments on the condition) and (b) the mouse begins to manifest intractable symptoms of the tumor or resulting mass effect, the mouse is killed quickly and (hopefully) painlessly.

          Unfortunately, they also kill the mice after the experiment if treatment is successful. I don't see the need for this except to free up cages, and I am a bit surprised they don't want to

    • Oooh, then you reeeeeally don't want to see the addiction studies with cocaine feeds going directly into monkeys' brains... Actually, you also probably don't want to see what happens in most factory farms. Aside from some memory problems, these mice probably live quite a cushy life, for a mouse, and will probably die a quick and painless death. And because of them, hopefully life will get better for millions of people.

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