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Bill Would Require Labels on Cloned Food

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Apr 18, 2007 07:20 PM
from the it-tastes-exactly-the-same dept.
ComeBack writes "Steaks, pork chops, milk and other products from cloned livestock would have to be clearly labeled on grocers' shelves under a bill pending in the California Legislature. If passed, the requirement could be more stringent than federal rules. The Food and Drug Administration is poised to give final approval to meat and milk from cloned animals without any special labeling, though a bill introduced in Congress would require it."
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[+] FDA Decides Cloned Animals Safe to Eat 323 comments
friedo writes "After five years of research, the Food and Drug Administration has decided that meat and milk from cloned animals is safe to eat. From the article: 'The government believes meat and milk from cattle, swine and goat clones is as safe to eat as the food we eat every day, said Stephen F. Sundlof, director of the FDA Center for Veterinary Medicine. Meat and milk from the offspring of clones is also safe, the agency concluded. Officials said they did not have enough information to decide whether food from sheep clones is safe. If food from clones is indistinguishable, FDA doesn't have the authority to require labels, Sundlof said. Companies trying to distance themselves from cloning must be careful with their wording, he added.'"
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  • by Brad1138 (590148) * <brad1138@yahoo.com> on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:22PM (#18790647)
    Mini-Me: Are you a clone of an angel?

    Foxxy Cleopatra: Ohhh how sweet. No, my mini-man, I'm not.

    Mini-Me: Are you sure you don't have a little clone in you?

    Foxxy Cleopatra: Yes I'm sure.

    Mini-Me: Would you like to?
  • Somewhat surprising (Score:5, Informative)

    by WindBourne (631190) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:28PM (#18790735) Journal
    Just recently, the FDA has quietly changed the labeling requirements on using irradiation to package food with. Now, It is called pasteurization. Yup, just like Milk's process (which simply flash heats and cools the milk).

    Do not get me wrong. I have no qualm about eating irradiated food. But I do believe that I should get to know what I am eating. As it is, it bother me that the markets are required to show that a fish comes from china (as it should), but a dog food with imported products such as Wheat Glutin can be labeled as made in America/Canada.
    • I think that is the key: Don't limit the selection, just force makers to CLEARLY label what you are buying, including country of orgin, contents, and any "unusual" methods of handling or origin, just as iradiation, gm, cloning, etc.
    • by lawpoop (604919) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:47PM (#18791001) Homepage Journal
      I've read some libertarian postings that propose a complete and accurate information should be the only regulation that government imposes on business. Besides the problems that that poses as far as infrastructure and business cost, I can't think of a problem with it.

      If we left labeling solely up to corporations, all we would get would be informationless, quasi-inaccurate or misleading feel-good marketing BS, or no labeling at all. Marketing is emotional manipulation, not factual communication. Back in the good old days, before the FDA, if a plant worker fell in the meat-processing machinery, a lot of people would wind up eating human flesh from a can of pork. I guess I can't say I would have a problem avoiding a can of meat that contained some amount of human flesh, so long as it was accurately labeled ;)
      • Back in the good old days, before the FDA, if a plant worker fell in the meat-processing machinery, a lot of people would wind up eating human flesh from a can of pork.

        [citation needed]

        (please disregard my sig for the duration of this thread...)

        • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

          From Upton Sinclair's The Jungle [gutenberg.org]:

          "Worst of any, however, were the fertilizer men, and those who served in the cooking rooms. These people could not be shown to the visitor,--for the odor of a fertilizer man would scare any ordinary visitor at a hundred yards, and as for the other men, who worked in tank rooms full of steam, and in some of which there were open vats near the level of the floor, their peculiar trouble was that they fell into the vats; and when they were fished out, there was never enough o
          • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)


            The Jungle is a novel (and an activist novel at that), not really a reliable source. According to Wikipedia (which of course isn't a reliable source either): "Ironically, the only claim that was unsubstantiated by the report was the claim that workers, whom had fallen into the giant lard vats, were left in these vats and were consequently being made into Durham's Pure Leaf Lard- by far the most influential, revolting, and striking passage in the book."

            • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

              Well, the novel claims to be non-fiction. If Sinclair had written this, and it wasn't true, why didn't the meat packing industry sue him for libel? Think of how much monetary damage he caused the meat industry by writing that book. Nobody could be sure that they weren't eating human flesh when they bought canned meat or lard!
  • ...because just about everything in the whole store would have a sticker on it.

    Apples? Cloned. Potatos? Cloned. Bannanas? Cloned.
    Most commercial strawberries are propagated via runners.
    Corn is a freak hybrid. Always has been.

    And yet a bunch of kook Californians are trying to use cloning to stoke fear in consumers.

    Never say the hard left isn't as anti-scientific as the hard right.
    • I agree!

      In fact, if all food that was cloned had to be labelled as such, people would very quickly "get over it" and desensitize.

      Then, it's game over for the anti-clonistas.
    • ... well except for the hybrid. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vegetative_reproducti on [wikipedia.org]

      This form of reproduction is not natural for animals (except maybe geeks). Cloning should be labelled because there are a bunch of unknowns and unnatural processes involved. Apart from potential health issues there are also ethical ones. As a consumer I might choose to not support cloning.

      • Oranges do have edible skin. I've had coworkers in the past that eat every last bit of citrus fruit (oranges, tangerines, grapefruit), which I found odd, but they never keeled over and died. The only use I've ever made of orange rinds is using the zest in the occasional baked chicken.
  • I'm not for markets, but I do know how they work. They require the consumer to have full knowledge of the products they might buy.

    As such I think that in this present society, all modified organisms (genetically modified via the addition or removal of genes or whatever) should be clearly labelled. Treatments (such as irradiation) should be clearly labelled and so on.

    Sure they can ring the company, but do you really think the company will tell the truth, or if they do say it such a manner that the consume
    • As an agrologist that grew up in the dairy industry, I can tell you right now this is one of the most laughable initiatives to come along in a long time. Too bad the people proposing this don't have half a clue about how we use genetics in the production of livestock products. THERE WILL BE NO MEAT OR MILK COMING FROM ANY CLONED ANIMALS FOR A LONG TIME. These people are wasting everyone's time.
  • ...why aren't people complaining about the originals? After all, a clone is (literally) exactly the same.
  • other labels (Score:4, Insightful)

    by contrapunctus (907549) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:38PM (#18790849)
    All the following is IMHO.

    I think labels are a good thing; consumers can educate themselves if they want to and they have all the relevant info available.

    I think having food labeled whether it's genetically modified is also helpful.

    I'm always looking for food that has been obtained using fair trade practices.
    I also look for food that has been obtained using sustainable and eco-friendly practices.

    My only choices now are to go to the local organic/natural food store and internet stores, not only for food but for environmentally friendly household products (and others).
  • cloning an unmodified strain of cattle, while not wise in terms of failsafing your herds, will at least produce the exact same natural cows.

    research has been showing genetically modified foods may be detrimental to your health, and yet no label for them.

    i guess government "concern for safety" only applies when the industry to be targetted doesnt have billions in revenues.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        There's a scientific consensus that GM foods are safe
        Which is probably true for those GM varieties that have been developed so far. However there are many other issues involved with the GM industry that are not so clear cut e.g. the long-term impact of introducing herbicide resistance, terminator genes and gene patents. Labelling GM food helps people who care about these issues to make informed choices and doesn't harm those who don't care.
  • Personally, if I were a dairy farmer, I'd start up a brand with cloning as a gimmick. Maybe even make a witty commercial with a uneducated-looking farmer talking about the intricacies of selecting only the best dairy cows that naturally produce the best milk, and then cloning the hell out of them.

    "That there's Bessy. She's the best cow we've ever had. Produces the best milk you've ever tasted, and lots of it too. So we had her cloned. That whole barn there is full of Bessys. Heck, it's better 'n pumpin'
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      The problem is that usually it's the bull that's cloned because he has fathered goos dairy cows and only for the purpose of breeding.
      So the dairy cow isn't technically cloned.
      Now would the milk be labeled coned?
  • I could swear that i read this article on slashdot before ... i just can't find the link ...
  • I can't really see a reason against this except cost and regulation. Honestly I wouldn't care.

    Really it's not for you (unless you want it) it's for the people who are morally opposed to certain things. You can do it for Kosher food, why not have it for cloned food (and possibly genetically enhanced food). The fact is there's going to be people against cloned food, and those people will choose not to buy cloned food, why not make it easier so they don't have to bitch. Let them go be elitists.

    Personally I
  • by NewsWatcher (450241) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:54PM (#18791093)
    My thoughts are that consumers SHOULD be aware of what they are eating, and they should be able to choose what to eat themselves. It may be that while not worried about the health impact of cloned meat, a consumer may have ethical concerns about scientists tinkering to produce cloned animals.

    What I want to know though, is what happens to the offspring of cloned animals? Is their meat also labelled? If the offspring were the result of a pairing of two cloned animals, then presumably they also have cloned genes floating through their bodies. If the parents are unhealthy, then presumably the offspring are too.

    What about the pairing of a cloned animal with an uncloned one? What do you do about their offspring?
    If an animals is just 1/4 or 1/8 or 1/256th cloned, does it still get a warning?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      If it's a clone it's a normal animal, if the procedure to do the cloning works correctly... with the same dna as it's older sibling, like somehow having twins that were born months or years apart. How that dna is expressed as genes and proteins, etc is not predetemined... so a cow cloned from a white cow with a big black patch over it's eye will probably have a black patch or patches somewhere but not necessarily over the eye. A clone is not a mutant or genetically engineered... just genetically replicated
  • Ahh, the ignorance (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Alpha830RulZ (939527) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @08:17PM (#18791369)
    They've been smoking cloned dope for well over 20 years, without much protest or concern. Essentially all, or nearly all, marijuana is grown from cloned stock. You'd think that would assuage their fears somewhat.
  • Not the real issue (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Dave Emami (237460) on Thursday April 19 2007, @06:45AM (#18795791)
    The folks pushing this don't want the labels so that they can avoid cloned meat. Anyone who really cares about it can buy from sources that target them (fx. the Trader Joe's chain). What they are interested in is making the average non-caring consumer think that there's something wrong with cloned meat, since there's what appears to be a warning label on it, and thus deter producers from using cloning.

    That the FDA is set to allow sale of cloned meat without special labelling means that they've determined that it's not a distinction pertinent to anyone's health. That makes it the secular equivalent of a religious dietary restriction. The costs associated with making sure that the meat in a package isn't cloned should fall on those who care about it, not those who don't. If enough people do want badly enough to avoid cloned meat, specialty stores and sections within stores will cater to that. But it's not a health concern, so it shouldn't be depicted as such on the label. There are "contains nuts" labels because people can have serious allergic reactions to them. But there aren't big red "Warning! Not Kosher!" and "Not Halal!" labels on ham, nor "Contains Beef!" or "Contains Caffeine!" stickers on sausages and energy drinks despite devout Jews, Muslims, Hindus and Mormons not wanting to consume those things. Orthodox Jews pay a premium for kosher products, since they're the ones to whom it matters. So do people who want organic produce or "fair trade" coffee. And so should people wanting to avoid cloned meat, for the same reason: they're the ones wanting something different from the norm for other than objective health reasons.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      The point is to allow consumers to make their own decisions on what goes into their bodies.
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        If cloning produces a genetically identical animal to the original what is the purpose? The original cow wasn't labeled when it made its way through the superstore, why should the exact copies be labeled?
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Clones AREN'T exact copies. At least with our current technology. Clones tend to die a lot quicker than the real things and develop more diseases.
          • by Savage-Rabbit (308260) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @08:45PM (#18791725)

            Clones AREN'T exact copies. At least with our current technology. Clones tend to die a lot quicker than the real things and develop more diseases.
            I agree... The way I see it there are diseases that are caused by some pretty unexpected mechanisms [wikipedia.org] and not just viruses or bacteria so, basically, I'd rather be safe than sorry. Now, I know prion diseases have little or nothing to do with cloning but if such a thing as infectious proteins is possible I'm open to the possibility that GM foods may be harmful to humans in ways that have yet to manifest them selves. I'm normally quite quick to adopt new technologies but if they have the potential to shorten my life-span I'm simply not interested. Another point is that these GM/Cloned food stuffs offer no real advantages that I can see over the old fashioned food stuffs and so I will keep away from anything made from GELFs for the foreseeable future. If GM/Cloned food labeling hurts some soulless corporation's profit margin by reducing their ability to market their GM foods products then.... well..... I really don't give a f*ck. I still want GM foods to be labeled, period!.
                • by shaitand (626655) on Thursday April 19 2007, @12:01AM (#18793723) Homepage Journal
                  'They get diseases more easily, have shorter life-spans and suffer from all sorts of weird conditions like organs that grow at freakish speeds which results in hideous deformities.'

                  Yup, but the lifespans are irrelevant since we kill off these animals ahead of time anyway. The diseases we check for, so again, it doesn't matter.

                  I was born in cow country. All the abnormalities and birth defects occur with normally grown animals as well, they occur more frequently with clones. I could hang around a couple farms for no more than 2 years and show you enough animal deformities and abnormalities to make you swear off the regular stuff (not that the farmers would be inclined to let me document that). More frequent abnormalities occur with inbreeding and how much more inbred can you get than a clone?

                  I'm with those who are selling the meat. Its all the same thing.

                  • by BlueTrin (683373) on Thursday April 19 2007, @03:51AM (#18795055) Homepage Journal
                    Well not really like the other poster said read some papers.

                    article [mindfully.org]

                    Scientists found out that Dolly is actually one of the best clones ever made, most of the attemps done on mammals did not give as good results.

                    When we speak about defects, we mean that none of them is normal, natural born animals have defects usually but in a lesser percentage and do not transmit to the next generation these problems if too important since they just die before to be able to ...
                • Protein (including any DNA, unless you're swallowing a. pylori bacteria) is broken down in the stomach under the action of acid and pepsin, into constituent amino acids. At this point, the specific genotype of the cow becomes a moot question. It's gone. The only health question post-breakdown is whether a toxin is present in the meat.

                  The diseases you describe occurring in cloned animals, due to abnormalities in their genomes as a result of cloning, are genetic in nature. The are not communicable any more th
              • Re:The Point? (Score:4, Insightful)

                by shaitand (626655) on Thursday April 19 2007, @12:21AM (#18793859) Homepage Journal
                'For all we know, healthy intact telomeres (which were present in the parent organism but not present in cloned copies) are an important part of a healthy balanced diet'

                Possible but not probable. There are millions on things you can purchase and consume on the market that haven't undergone extensive testing. There is no reason to single out cloned meat for testing except that the idea freaks you out. That's like saying escargot needs to undergo clinical testing for safety because something as gross as snails could be dangerous. Don't try pulling the natural vs unnatural card either. Something is not more likely to be safe simply because its natural, nature has produced more things that are harmful to man than man has.

                This is one of those issues that nobody cares about unless you shove it under their nose. Mandating something like this means more additional expense for the producer than just print on a label. It means they have to have seperate facilities and handle the two seperately. You can no longer send them to a single slaughter house to be butchered and mixed together. Grocery stores would also have to keep and handle the meats seperately. Instead of taking 50 of cut A and grinding it up then splitting it into 1.2lb (they are always intentionally over) packages they will have to handle and process two batches. Thousands of Grocers and processors across the country are suddenly open to liability if they make a mistake in the handling. These expenses will be passed on to EVERYONE whether they care about cloned meat or not.

                Like most issues, this is something best left out of the law books. If people are really concerned then they will voice their complaints loudly enough that some vendors will voluntarily tag their meats 'all natural' and pass the premiums on to the consumers who care about the distinction.

                I do agree that many will be concerned and that this will occur but I disagree that we should pass laws forcing people to behave the way we'd like each time there is a problem. The best solution in almost every case is to get rid of the existing laws, not to add new ones.

                • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

                  There is no reason to single out cloned meat for testing except that the idea freaks you out.

                  Almost everything we eat we have a pretty good history regarding it's safety. Cloned animals undergo a significantly altered process than non-cloned animals, this includes dna manipulation, apllying electric shocks to cell, etc. We do not have a clear understanding of why cloning results in so many failures and why they fail in the way they do. This is ample reason to be careful about ingesting that food until
        • Thats the rub. Cloning does not result in exact copies. We also do not know what are the possible long-term side effects or risks are.
        • The point is cloning is too new to know if any risks are present since no long term tests have been done yet and this would at least let people have a choice to be a guinee pig or not. Personally I would prefer not to be one.

          This is similar to some of the genetically modified/genetically engineered foods that are available which could have long term health effects and from what I have heard some have even shown some effects in the short term. The last time I checked the legislation in the US would not req
          • I agree, mostly (Score:4, Insightful)

            If enough* people are concerned about it, then it makes sense to label accordingly. If I weren't a vegetarian, then I'd have no problem paying less for cloned meat, as I think it's highly unlikely that cloning could result in any danger to the consumer. If you feel differently, then you should be allowed to opt out - which is what labeling allows.

            * enough should be a pretty low bar as labeling isn't that expensive. Maybe 1% = "enough", but I'm just making up numbers here.
            • For that matter, seeing something marked as cloned may get me to opt in. Products that are made to be of higher quality may attract my attention faster, especially since I've been avoiding most red meat for health reasons. I'd like to be able to go back to eating a little more of it if it can be shown to be very lean and have certain other characteristics more likely to be found in poultry, simply because I like the taste of a nice steak.
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          Actually, I know exactly what is in Splenda. I have no idea what has been sprayed on the fruit.

    • Re:The Point? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Kohath (38547) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @09:29PM (#18792257)
      What is the point of the label without any information regarding the risks?

      1. So you can falsely imply risks and sell your competing product as clone-free.
      2. So you can hire more government employees to police the label requirement. They (or their union) will contribute to your campaign.
      3. For the revenue from the fines on "improperly" labeled food.
      4. You run a law firm and can sue companies for "harm" from cloned food. They settle out of court.
      5. Who better to head the food labeling bureau than the guy who wrote the bill?

      So the short answer is profit.

      This is the reason behind most regulation or other government action.
    • by Joebert (946227) on Wednesday April 18 2007, @07:44PM (#18790961) Homepage

      ... and will please the animal-cruelty protestors.

      Untill they figure out that we're not only killing the animals, we're killing them over & over again.
      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        There are a lot of people with moral objections to cloning of any kind. They believe it is playing God. Whether you or I agree is neither here nor there. While I might disagree with many veiws of, say, a conservative Christian, I think they have as much right to know whether the food they buy conflicts with their beliefs as anyone else. Jews and Muslims don't eat pork, Hindus don't eat beef. This generally gets respected. Anyone remember McDonald's getting in trouble for not making it known they were using
    • There shall be vats of Unthinking Cloned Meat for everybody.
      Finally! I just hope that bathing in cloned meat gives me the same gratification I get from real meat.