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Power Government Science Politics

Japanese Company Admits To Nuclear Cover Up 295

a-charles writes "Just as power companies are considering the first expansion of nuclear power usage in the US since the 70s, Reuters reports on a disturbing anouncement from the nation of Japan. On Thursday the Japanese power company Hokuriku Electric Power admitted it had covered up a 1999 incident in which mishandling of nuclear fuel rods led to an unintended self-sustaining nuclear fission chain reaction. The mishap caused the plant, located in central Japan, to enter a 'critical state' for much of those 15 minutes. Apparently, this was in the same year that two workers were killed in a separate incident in Tokaimura, northeast of Tokyo. A pair of workers were killed after using buckets to mix nuclear fuel in a lab, a test that also created an uncontrolled chain reaction for a short time. The nuclear power industry already has a bad name for safety violations in Japan, and these revelations are unlikely to help with that public image."
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Japanese Company Admits To Nuclear Cover Up

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  • by Anonymous Coward on Saturday March 17, 2007 @06:48AM (#18384477)
    The real reason they covered it up was that some of the employees mutated into evil transcendental beings of superior intelligence who afterwards went to hibernate in a secret facility reportedly located in the 23rd underground level of Satori III naval cybernetics base.
  • by vivaoporto ( 1064484 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @06:53AM (#18384493)
    A pair of workers were killed after using buckets to mix nuclear fuel in a lab

    We all know what [wikipedia.org] power plant is that. The Sector 7-G Safety Inspector Homer J. Simpson refused to make any statement, but was heard shouting "D'oh!" right after the incident.
    • by thhamm ( 764787 )
      to mix nuclear fuel in a lab

      Homer: "Nucular. It's pronounced "Nucular".
    • by mdsolar ( 1045926 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:48AM (#18384973) Homepage Journal
      The one with fatalities is listed http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_civilian_nucl ear_accidents [wikipedia.org] here. This raises a very serious issue. How complete is the list of accidents? The one in 2006 in Sweden suggests that modern plants can't be operated safely but that the risk of a very large accident is one in forty years at the present level of reliance on nuclear power. If the list is very incomplete, as this cover up might urge us to consider, then the risk of large accidents could be much higher than one in forty years at the present level of reliance on nuclear power. In that case, increasing our reliance on nuclear power seems foolhardy and decommisioning existing plants on an accelerated schedule would be a good policy to adopt.
      --
      Fusion power today: http://mdsolar.blogspot.com/2007/01/slashdot-users -selling-solar.html [blogspot.com]
      • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

        by kad77 ( 805601 )
        In your mind, an ever running public wiki of the names, date of birth and location of every human ever involved in a nuclear accident may sound important. It is not. Organizations that matter are aware of the risks, benefits.

        Unfortunately, too many 'flat earth' types are hindering scientific and technological progress with their foolish FUD campaigns and political action committees-- hindering third world countries efforts to build fossil fuel burning stations to provide basic services to their impoverished
        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by mdsolar ( 1045926 )
          You seem not to understand that the safety record of the nuclear power industry is very poor. As it turns out, contrary to what we have been led to beleive, there is no full opportunity for the industry to learn from its mistakes because accidents are covered up. This particular accident has no record or analysis so it may well be repeated with worse consequences.

          As you point out, different technology is called for. However, it is not at all clear that pebble bed reactors can be run safely on a commerc
      • With all the accidents in coal mines, not to mention their addition of huge quantities of CO2 to the atmosphere, I think we should accelerate the decommissioning of these plants.
        • This is a very good idea. Coal plants do provide a large portion of our electric power so replacing them should probably be done using something that scales up quickly. Solar and wind seem to have this property.
        • by Andy Dodd ( 701 )
          Also, I recall (but cannot confirm) hearing that there is a coal plant in Utah that releases more radioactive material into the air EACH DAY due to traces of uranium in the coal they burn than TMI has released in its entire lifetime.

          Whether or not this is true, I'd rather live 5 miles from a nuclear plant than a coal plant. With a nuclear plant, there is a tiny probability that something might be released into the air that will affect my health. With a coal plant, you KNOW it's happening daily.

          Anyone who
      • Re: (Score:2, Informative)

        by Aglassis ( 10161 )

        The one in 2006 in Sweden suggests that modern plants can't be operated safely but that the risk of a very large accident is one in forty years at the present level of reliance on nuclear power. If the list is very incomplete, as this cover up might urge us to consider, then the risk of large accidents could be much higher than one in forty years at the present level of reliance on nuclear power. In that case, increasing our reliance on nuclear power seems foolhardy and decommisioning existing plants on an accelerated schedule would be a good policy to adopt.

        You do not have a clue about nuclear safety. As someone who was personally responsible for the safety of a nuclear reactor I can tell you are just fear-mongering. You have cited some abstract fear (that accidents aren't reported) that you somehow use to rubberstamp fear about every design of nuclear reactor, including in a latter post the pebble bed reactor. Do you have justification that the US industry is not safe and not reporting its issues? You damn well better because you are claiming that the US

        • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

          by mdsolar ( 1045926 )
          Humm... It is a little discouraging that someone with responsibility for nuclear safety considers venting or spills unimportant.

          I would say that your list of studies does not really pass the smell test for a system that has any chance of ever being considered reliable on the safety front. Sounds like system complexity is a bit too high.

          I have not seen companies that own reactors shutting down the coal plants that they also own so are you not being a bit optimistic on the idea that nuclear power can re
        • by Maserati ( 8679 )
          On this one I'm gonna listen to the low 5-digit ID with the Admiral Rickover quote in his .sig. Just sayin'.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by Pyrowolf ( 877012 )
      Let me get this straight. They were mixing nuclear... ahem... NUCLEAR fuel in --- BUCKETS ---! Tell me how any part of that whole idea sound any bit logical?!?
      • by mattkime ( 8466 )
        >>Tell me how any part of that whole idea sound any bit logical?!?

        Buckets work waaaaay better than bowls.

        (Unless its the bowl for a KitchenAid mixer.)
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Something about this says "poor management choices" to me. The workers were preparing fuel for an experimental reactor, with buckets. It's not hard to imagine that the proper equipment would have put the project over budget, so they were told to make due. I know that every business cuts corners somewhere, but maybe nuclear facilities should be an exception to this.
  • by Whiney Mac Fanboy ( 963289 ) * <whineymacfanboy@gmail.com> on Saturday March 17, 2007 @06:58AM (#18384515) Homepage Journal
    The real problem with nuclear energy is not the reactors (the middle bit)), but the mining (the first bit) of the uranium and the disposal (the end bit) of the waste.

    I can imagine a solution to clean up the former (although this would make nuclear fuel even more expensive), but I haven't yet seen a (proven) solution for the latter*

    Until we're there, nuclear just doesn't seem as viable as coal (sad tho' that may be).

    The search for a better solution to our energy need continues. (be it sequestration for coal, waste disposal for nuke, higher efficiency for wind, cleaner materials & higher efficiency for solar, better storage techniques for all the above). There is no silver bullet.

    * Not to mention the fact that we won't allow some countries to develop nuclear energy, so its an energy solution that's not even on the table for many parts of the world.
    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      IF we have to have nuclear power (and I fail to see any good arguments for it, and I'm not going to argue this point so don't even bother), I would not be adverse to simply putting it in rockets and shooting towards the nearest star.

      We could build them cheaply (they don't have to re-enter the atmosphere) and I think safely enough (lots of experience building rockets that don't fall apart when *leaving* Earth) not to have to worry.

      But, I'm an intelligent environmentalist, there are lots of crazies out there
      • by KDR_11k ( 778916 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @07:46AM (#18384695)
        We can build pretty safe rockets but not perfectly safe ones, there's always the risk of an accident causing an explosion in the atmosphere. Also expect the number of rocket explosions to increase as commercial interest in cheaper launches increases.
      • by shmlco ( 594907 )
        An "intelligent environmentalist" eh? What's so intelligent about not reprocessing spent fuel? Even "waste" contains energy that could eventually be reused by more advanced processes, and you just want to throw it away? Ever heard of recycling?
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by soccerisgod ( 585710 )

      Here's a crazy novel idea for you: Why just not stop wasting so much energy in the first place? If you need less energy, you need not worry as much about where you will get it from. Let's be honest, a lot of the energy used today is senselessly wasted on matters of pure convenience. We have standby circuits in many electronics products that needlessly waste energy, we leave our computers running all the time even if we're not around, same for light; we waste gigantic amounts of energy to produce things like

      • by evilviper ( 135110 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @10:23AM (#18385617) Journal

        We have standby circuits in many electronics products that needlessly waste energy, we leave our computers running all the time even if we're not around, same for light; we waste gigantic amounts of energy to produce things like tin foil, and the list goes on and on. Surely, at least in a few of those areas, we could do with less wasting?

        No, I don't think we could.

        To reduce the no-load power requirements of transformers, you're going to have to drastically increase the price of each unit.

        I certainly don't leave my computers running all the time unless necessary, and for those that do, CPU power-saving features have trickled down to desktops now, so computers are more efficient when idle than ever before.

        Tin foil takes energy to manufacture, but cleaning and reusing takes time, money, and energy too.

        And if you don't think the above points are important, I suggest you consider that people working to pay for their vastly more expensive gadgets will waste lots more energy than any of those could possibly save in return. Remember, only about 1/4th of the electricity in the US is used for residential purposes. The other 3/4ths is used by companies... The company where you work to get the money to buy things. The factory that assembles the brand-new (energy efficient) products you buy. etc.

        There's little sadder than watching a rabid environmentalist throw away perfectly good, working equipment. Often, spending lots of money to buy a new "green" item gets you a product that is only marginally more efficient than the old one.

        If you want to actually save a non-trivial amount of energy, the solutions aren't easy or glamorous. Better home insulation will make a huge difference. Turn down your heater, so your refrigerator doesn't have to work as hard. Dry your clothes on a line. Compost all your own garbage. Get the entire world to drive mopeds to work (hopefully with 4-stroke engines). etc. Hell, in warmer climates, you'll probably save hundreds of dollars each years on air conditioning if you spend a few minutes, and $20 to duct the hot exhaust from your refrigerator, directly outdoors.

        If you consider things like indoor plumbing a convenience, then yes, lots of energy is wasted on modern conveniences. If you instead consider that a necessity, then no, relatively very little energy is wasted on conveniences.

        And even if you cut out all completely non-essential human activity, we'll have the same issues with power that we have now. Even when you're burning less of it, coal is still toxic, oil is still expensive, etc.
        • To reduce the no-load power requirements of transformers, you're going to have to drastically increase the price of each unit.

          If there's no load, it shouldn't be connected to the mains at all. That's what the right kind of power switch will do, cut it off from the mains altogether.

          If you want to actually save a non-trivial amount of energy, the solutions aren't easy or glamorous. Better home insulation will make a huge difference. Turn down your heater, so your refrigerator doesn't have to work as hard. D

      • [i]Here's a crazy novel idea for you: Why just not stop wasting so much energy in the first place?[/i]

        A coworker of mine was going on and on about some new electric car that is coming out in a lotus like body. He was fawning over the lightweight composites and other clever weight reductions, like engines in the wheels so that there doesn't have to be the whole cam-shafty thingy.

        What occurred to me here was that one of the best features of this vehicle is that it is lighter. That's definitionally energy-cons
    • by sphealey ( 2855 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:42AM (#18384941)
      > ut I haven't yet seen a (proven) solution for
      > the latter*[nuclear waste]
      > Until we're there, nuclear just doesn't seem
      > as viable as coal (sad tho' that may be)

      Of course, coal burning generates radioactive waste as well. The concentration is small but the volumes are very large.

      sPh
    • Nuclear cycle (Score:2, Informative)

      by iwein ( 561027 )
      This is always bugging me a bit. But I'll give it a shot again:

      1. Mining.
      This is the same as any other kind of mining, just that what you dig up is a bit more dangerous, so you'll have to be carefull. No fundamental problems here.

      2. Reaction
      No fundamental problems here, just handling dangerous materials, have to be careful. The good thing is that you'll actually reduce the amount of radioactive material in the reactor.

      3. Waste
      Well now you just put the material that remains back were it came from. End result
      • 2. Reaction
        No fundamental problems here, just handling dangerous materials, have to be careful. The good thing is that you'll actually reduce the amount of radioactive material in the reactor.


        Handling volatile radioactive fuel? Potential outbrake of uncontrolled chain reaction? Numerous points of failure? Some people with an almost complete lack of respect for regulations and instructions?
        The reaction process is dangerous, just look at Chernobyl.
        Although nuclear power has been relatively safe, but no one ca
        • Re:Nuclear cycle (Score:4, Informative)

          by GooberToo ( 74388 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @11:39AM (#18386099)
          Rule #1 when discussing anything nuclear. The first person to mention Chernobyl as an example as to how dangerous nuclear power can be is the loser. The reason? That person just admitted that they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about and are unfit to contribute anything to a nuclear debate. The second rule of debating nuclear power, never mention Chernobyl.

          Here are the Chernobyl facts:
          o Chernobyl only has a single containment shell which is thinner what anyone considers safe for a single layer of a double layer containment design. In other words, any non-Russia design has two containment shells, both single layers are thicker than what Chernobly provided with its single shell. Why? Because its dangerously stupid to do it that way.

          o Chernobyl has fewer safety mechanisms that is considered safe by the world, even as far back at the 1950s. Basically, all non-Russia designers have deemed Chernobyl a worst case accident waiting to happen and unfit to be built. Only in technologically inferior Russia could such a design be approved. Even by Three Mile Island standards, where some monitoring equipment was not installed, Chernobol is third world sub standard. This is important because by the time Three Mile island went online, even its monitoring equipment was considered sub standard by its opponents.

          o What little was installed for Chernobyl's auxilary cooling systems were non-functional and in need of repair. They were offline. Ignoring all non-Russian operated reactors, the reactor would have been taken offline as a matter of safety protocol.

          o But small penis Russia had something to prove, so they DISABLED their remaining safeties! Followed by a mandate from the Russian government that they begin a series of very dangerous tests. These tests would be considered dangerous for any fully operational, non-Russian reactor. In otherwords, basic protocols say you NEVER do these types of tests on a full scale reactor unless the reactor is specifically designed for these types of tests.

          o And oh, let's make sure they do these tests while the reactor has a skeleton crew. Basically, they had so few people, they could never hope to react to any real emergency.

          So in a nut shell, we have a design that is so flawed, it could NEVER contain any type of serious accident and by worldly comparison, is considered ufit and should never have been built. Most of its backup systems were never installed and what few were installed, were not operative and in need of repair. Both common sense and basic safety protocols were already violated yet they contained to run. What few safetys remain were purposely disabled by the skeleton crew to allow for a series of very dangerous tests. The tests caused a run away which any other non-Russian design would have safely handled. But, for the sake of argument, let's assume a non-Russian reactor would of failed...but all non-Russian containment shells would have properly contained the situation causing only a minimum of radioactive venting. And that's still assuming a 1960 - 1970s reactor design. Modern designs would simply melt into a slag, shutting down the runaway, preventing any and all containment loss.

          Long story short, anyone that thinks Chernobyl is in any way, shape, or form an example of how dangerous nuclear power is is ignorant of the subject, and unworthy to debate it. Pointing to Chernobyl as a posterboy makes as much sense as pointing at a standard bomb and declaring nuclear is dangerous. Chernobly is a posterboy of how small Russia's penis is and nothing more. In otherwords, if one wanted to spread radioactive contamination over a huge area, you do it, by design, EXACTLY how Russia did it. Chernobyl is a posterboy of how to build a bomb while calling it a power plant.

          If anything, it proves that we don't want Russia building nuclear power plants. If anything, it proves that Russia is technologically incompetent. If anything, it proves that the Russian government is unethical and immorale. If
          • by gfxguy ( 98788 )
            Which is why I have to wonder why they mention the U.S. is expanding in a posting about Japanese problems. Just more fear-mongering.
          • I do not oppose to nuclear energy per se, but pointing at the Russians and smugly believing that it proves nothing bad could ever happen at a western plant is what disqualifies people from discussing nuclear power.
            Admittedly, there were a number of issues with the RBMK reactor, and it probably wouldn't have been able to happen to common western designs, but then again it did have safety mechanisms which could have prevented what happened.

            There weren't any "series of very dangerous tests", but a simple test
            • I do not oppose to nuclear energy per se, but pointing at the Russians and smugly believing that it proves nothing bad could ever happen at a western plant is what disqualifies people from discussing nuclear power.

              That was not my point. My point was, citing Chernobyl in any context as it relates to western nuclear safety (or general nuclear safety) is completely off topic. Chernobyl is what happens when people purposely go out of their way to create a nuclear cloud. Period. Citing nuclear weapons tests
          • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

            by clambake ( 37702 )
            The first person to mention Chernobyl as an example as to how dangerous nuclear power can be is the loser. The reason? That person just admitted that they have absolutely no clue what they are talking about and are unfit to contribute anything to a nuclear debate.

            No, they have NOTHING to contribute... The Reason? Because incompetence, shoddy, inadequate equipment and good old fashioned dumb-ass bravado are things of the past. Such things can never again happen in the future. Never.
    • If more investment was made into Ion Propulsion then the nuclear waste issue would be a non-starter.

      Once you have orbital launch vehicles that can be powered themselves on nuclear power then all you have to do is store your global radioactive waste up and every six months or so use your nuclear launch vehicle to propel the waste into orbit and then jettison te waste capsule with a small booster propelling it into the sun.

      Problem solved forever.

      I really have yet to see why more research is not being one into
    • Coal fired plants release a lot of radio activity that is already present in coal. see: http://www.kgoam810.com/viewentry.asp?ID=346099&PT =PERSONALITIES [kgoam810.com]
    • by KonoWatakushi ( 910213 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @11:23AM (#18385997)

      The real problem with nuclear energy is not the reactors (the middle bit)), but the mining (the first bit) of the uranium and the disposal (the end bit) of the waste.

      Actually, it is not a problem in the slightest, if we use modern designs like the Integral Fast Reactor [wikipedia.org]. Current reactors only extract a few percent of the energy from the Uranium, and throw out the rest. Merely by recycling this "waste", any new Uranium mining can be delayed for certuries.

      I can imagine a solution to clean up the former (although this would make nuclear fuel even more expensive), but I haven't yet seen a (proven) solution for the latter*

      Using the aforementioned technology renders the waste problem inconsequential. More than that, it is likely to actually improve the waste situation; these reactors burn away all of the really nasty elements, and the little remaining waste is much safer and (relatively) very short lived.

      Furthermore, the design is passively safe, and meltdowns are impossible.

      The search for a better solution to our energy need continues. (be it sequestration for coal, waste disposal for nuke, higher efficiency for wind, cleaner materials & higher efficiency for solar, better storage techniques for all the above). There is no silver bullet.

      The search is over. Of course we should continue to investigate other technologies, but we have a perfectly workable and very nearly ideal one staring us in the face. For the foreseeable future, this is the silver bullet.

      In any case, holding out for something like the Tokamak is a waste of time. While a Fusion machine, in the end, it is hardly radiation free; the neutronic fusion reactions will slowly irradiate the hundreds of tons of reactor, which will eventually need to be disposed of and replaced.

      Much more interesting and promising in my opinion is the Polywell, [wikipedia.org] conceived of by Dr. Robert Bussard. The device seems like it may be perfectly feasible in the short term, and would have so many advantages, that it is madness not to make the minimal investment. I'm not going to discount Tokamak research, but we should really be investigating the alternatives as well. Anyway, here is Dr. Bussard's Google talk as well, for those who missed it: Should Google Go Nuclear? [google.com]
    • I agree with you that there is no silver bullet, and that includes nuclear, but strongly disagree that nuclear is less viable than coal.

      If we allowed breeder reactor and burner reactors then we could cut the amount of nuclear waste in tenth. At least one of these two technologies has been proven through extensive use in france. It is safe and cost effective. Studies have concluded that the resulting waste from burning all the (estimated) uranium in the US could be stored in a single Yucca mountain type proj
    • The real problem with nuclear energy is not the reactors (the middle bit)), but the mining (the first bit) of the uranium and the disposal (the end bit) of the waste.

      "The real problem" suggests there is only one "real" probly. While both mining and disposal are certainly real problems, it is also true that a real problem with (commercial viability of) nuclear energy is the reactors themselves, and particularly their safety. The reason no reactors have been built in the US since the 1970s is the potential li

  • Ugh, too bad (Score:3, Insightful)

    by BrainInAJar ( 584756 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @07:00AM (#18384521)
    It's terribly unfortunate to hear stories of mismanagement of nuclear materials...

    I'm very much of the opinion that more nuclear power is a good thing, It's clean, generally safe, & could serve as a solution to the global warming problem, but the public'll never agree with it if monkeys like this keep screwing it up.
    • by dbIII ( 701233 )
      Under the tightest of civilian controls you can still have guys like those that ran Enron giving orders. They are of course more of a potential danger than the people running power stations in the Ukrane in 1986 so you really do have to regulate everything tightly, enforce the rules and punish keeping incidents secret from the regulators without mercy.
  • People are not safe (Score:3, Interesting)

    by bl8n8r ( 649187 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @07:04AM (#18384541)
    They find the quickest way to make money for the least amount of work. Whether it's building a reactor, managing it, or turning the little knobs, people eventually go for the Easy Button. That kind of mentality does not historically* mix well with nuclear power. Another problem is accountability. Nobody (sans the religeous nutjobs) wants to get blamed for contaminating the globe so problems like these will always be minimzed and covered up; if even made public at all.

    [*]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_mile_island [wikipedia.org]
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chernobyl_Nuclear_Pow er_Plant#Accidents [wikipedia.org]
    • That kind of mentality does not historically* mix well with nuclear power.

      But it somehow mixes well with huge hydro-electric dams, and coal/oil/natural-gas fired power plants?

      I'd be far more worried about a dam in my backyard than I would about a nuclear power plant. Just ask China...
    • You should probably also realize that modern nuclear reactor designs do not have the risk for meltdown that Chernobyl and 3 Mile Island had.

      Statements like this are pure FUD.
  • I remember a quote about there would only be on average a significant nuclear accident every thousand years. The first accident occured before the first commercial plant was built, a small test reactor blew. Since then the safety record has been pretty miserable. The obvious ones have been Three Mile Island and Chernovyl but there have been lots of other nuclear accidents with one of the worst in this country the leaking waste water at the Hanford site which threatens a major river. In an ideal world it mig
  • Good reference for the history of nuclear accidents [wikipedia.org].
  • Sadly, the only reason we're even getting this news is because they're safely outside the three year statute of limitations (or local equivalent) so these morons can't be sent to court and buried with some control rods in a pit somewhere.

    I admit I take things like this kind of personally because my family and I live within striking distance of these incidents.

    This is the sad side of a culture which doesn't question or criticize. If people want to hide their dirty laundry in an accounting or business situati
    • by watomb ( 920150 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:48AM (#18384971) Homepage
      First the accident was contained the system worked! The only problem was the cover up.

      Personally I think everyone that hates nuclear energy should go jump of a bridge. What's next wind power fears, I mean we don't want to kill the birds or slow the earths rotation, and destroy the view. Oh wait do you mean my solar power panels have to be replaced every 10-15 years and produce huge amounts of localized heat. Oh then we have clean coal that produces more radioactive waste then any other form energy. Ok so its just radon and its half life is ~4 days.

      So if we can't have Coal or nuclear power plants and well we don't want to slow the earths rotation down because it could cause the moon to crash in the earth. An well we have to free Niagara Falls so that its all natural again. Then we have to ban the sun and eliminated all animals because they produce more carbon than all the cars&factories on the plant. We also can't have Hydrogen cars because currently all industrial Hydrogen comes from oil. An because you hate nuclear power you can't have the high temp generation of nuclear power plants that are designed to produce hydrogen.

      I guess that if you think we can control the thermal properties of the earth by using carbon emissions. We should build more nuclear power plants/dams/windmills no one solution meets are current and future power requirements. Ps if you would like to stop global warming ban all living animals! Go hunting and kill every creature you see. You will help prevent global warming. Ha if you kill more than 6 large animals you can drive hummer and still have a net carbon savings at the end of the year!

      Cheers,
      Bill T
      • What I hate about nuclear power lobbying is the dishonesty about who pays for security and disposal in calculations about the economic efficiency of the power source.

        Solar PV pays back its energy cost in 1.5-3 years according to this: http://www1.eere.energy.gov/solar/pv_basics.html [energy.gov]. Solar Cell manufacturers warrant their systems to last 20-25 years with many older systems going 30+ years (as is the expectation for current systems being installed).

        In the long run, if we build a electric power infrastructure
  • by WgT2 ( 591074 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @08:38AM (#18384907) Journal

    I never thought I'd refer to France as exemplary... So, here it goes:

    Has France ever had this problem?
  • Critical State? (Score:5, Informative)

    by markass530 ( 870112 ) <(markass530) (at) (gmail.com)> on Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:13AM (#18385151) Homepage
    It's been a few years (and a lot of beer) since I went through the navy's nuclear power program, so I can no long speak about it like an expert, but this i know a "Critical State" is just what happens when a nuclear reactor is producing power. It's fucking annoying to hear it announced like it's a bad thing. If it inadvertently entered this state, it could be bad a suppose, but as long as the hafnium rods where avaialable to be shoved back down in there to stem the reaction this wouldn't be a problem?
    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      It's fucking annoying to hear it announced like it's a bad thing. If it inadvertently entered this state, it could be bad a suppose, but as long as the hafnium rods where avaialable to be shoved back down in there to stem the reaction this wouldn't be a problem?

      I know what you mean about the misuse of the term "critical," but I think in this case it is the proper term to describe a bad thing. In the first situation a reactor (presumably shut down for maintenance, probably with no systems to come to the res

  • by Ngarrang ( 1023425 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:14AM (#18385157) Journal
    ...of one company muddy the waters for the rest of the power companies with nuclear plants. There are far more plants that do follow safe procedures and have no accidents.

    Now, to my energy rant.

    Nuclear power plants provide the most efficient production of electricity. It far outstrips the ability of coal, oil, solar, wind, whatever. And, it would be foolish to think that we are going to REDUCE the amount of electricity we need. So, please, all you tree-huggers, just go home. Society is dependent on an ever-increasing amount of the stuff, so just accept it. Thus, we need a power source that gives up the most bang for the buck.

    This incident, as with others, provides invaluable data that we learn from, improving the process everywhere else.

    All of the electric-car fantatics should be cheering for more nuclear power plants.
    • by dbIII ( 701233 )

      Nuclear power plants provide the most efficient production of electricity.

      Only if you cook the books - if you want numbers closer to reality consider British Nuclear Fuels and the subsidy that every UK electricity user pays to keep them going. If you cook the books and not consider mining, producing the fuel or building the installations you get close to zero CO2 emissions too - I dodn't know why the books are being cooked there becuase people should be happy enough with it being around half what you woul

    • Don't let the sin of one company muddy the waters for the rest of the power companies with nuclear plants.

      The problem is that nuclear plants have to be run by human beings. It's the same problem we have with government: we can design systems that work great in theory, like communism, if we ignore the fact that humans make mistakes all the time, but to make a system that really works, we need to count on people screwing some things up but have a system in place where those screw ups won't kill us all.

      I'm not
      • First off, my apologies to the tree-huggers. For all know, they may love nuclear power since means not burning trees or strip mining for coal.

        Second, yes, as long as humans are part of the safety formula, we are going to have issues. I took most issue with the request that we reduce our power needs to obviate the need for nuclear power.

        I forget the count at the moment, but I think the American Navy is operating over 100 nuclear-powered vessels. Their safety record is impeccable. Not perfect, but impecca
  • by Herkum01 ( 592704 ) on Saturday March 17, 2007 @09:20AM (#18385195)

    Ah yes, people died so Nuclear energy is dangerous! Talk about FUD, Lets see how safe how great COAL mining is!

    Stats are here for coal mining in the US alone. [msha.gov] You get around 30 people dying AND 2000+ injuries (or 5% of the work force) is involved in something harmful to their health EVERY YEAR.

    So WTF is dangerous about Nuclear power plants now?

  • At last we know the real reason what awoke Godzilla.

"Protozoa are small, and bacteria are small, but viruses are smaller than the both put together."

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