Slashdot Log In
Doomsday Seed Vault Design Unveiled
Posted by
Zonk
on Fri Feb 09, 2007 06:25 PM
from the any-room-for-humans-in-there dept.
from the any-room-for-humans-in-there dept.
in2mind writes "The BBC News is reporting on the completion of a design for a 'doomsday' vault ... that will house seeds. All known varieties of food crops will be represented in the structure, which will be constructed by the Norwegian government. The vault aims to safeguard the world's agriculture from future catastrophes by building into the side of a mountain. On a remote island. Near the North pole. The Svalbard International Seed Vault will house the seed samples at a preservative -18C (0F), and could be used by post-apocalyptic people to feed a hungry planet."
This discussion has been archived.
No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
Full
Abbreviated
Hidden
Loading... please wait.
How long will a post-apocalyptic population last (Score:5, Funny)
Heck, how long will the SEEDS last. (Score:5, Informative)
And they might as well make them into bread, because they are unlikely to sprout.
Seeds stay fertile only for a limited time. You can stretch that somewhat by keeping them frozen - provided that the particular seeds can survive freezing, of course. But short of cryonic preservation (after perfusing them with cryoprotectants) you're not going to get them to last more than a few years.
That's why REAL plant gene banks work by growing the plants with heavy water. This drastically slows their metabolism (along with that of any bugs that might attack them), resulting in these tiny bonsai-like specimens that live very slowly - and thus very long - and eventually make seeds you can use to continue the cycle. Grow their seeds in normal water and you're back to normal plants - or gradually switch the plants over to normal water and they may revert to normal growth patterns.
Parent
Re:Heck, how long will the SEEDS last. (Score:5, Informative)
"Seeds stay fertile only for a limited time. You can stretch that somewhat by keeping them frozen - provided that the particular seeds can survive freezing, of course. But short of cryonic preservation (after perfusing them with cryoprotectants) you're not going to get them to last more than a few years."
Some seeds can go over 1,000 years and still germinate. The current confirmed record (carbon dating) is 2,000 years http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Seed#Oldest_viable_se eds [wikipedia.org].
Seeds are tough. Here's a 120-year experiment: http://www.amjbot.org/cgi/content/abstract/89/8/12 85 [amjbot.org]
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Seeds are tough.
Some are, some, aren't. [wikipedia.org]
As you'll note from the article, some seeds (such as those of cocoa and rubber) are "recalcitrant" and can't be banked at all. Many others can be banked for a few years but need to be sprouted and new seeds grown from time to time.
Yes, the seeds of some plants can go for centuries. But that's outliers, not something you can count on for seeds of arbitrary crops.
Re:Heck, how long will the SEEDS last. (Score:4, Funny)
So, if there's a major apocalypse, then there will no longer be chocolate? That's one way to make an apocalypse even more apocalyptic...
Parent
Re:Heck, how long will the SEEDS last. (Score:5, Informative)
They already know the likely shelf life for most of these seeds. Out of any given sample of seeds a shrinking percentage will germinate over x years. Some seeds last better than others. That certainly doesn't negate the attempt. If even just a couple can germinate then the species can be potentially be brought back. I keep seeds from all kinds of plants from my gardens every year. I've had high percentages germinate from years old seeds and low percentages from last year's seeds. I've always been able to keep a line going even if only a couple of plants matured.
"That's why REAL plant gene banks work by growing the plants with heavy water. This drastically slows their metabolism (along with that of any bugs that might attack them), resulting in these tiny bonsai-like specimens that live very slowly - and thus very long - and eventually make seeds you can use to continue the cycle. Grow their seeds in normal water and you're back to normal plants - or gradually switch the plants over to normal water and they may revert to normal growth patterns."
Define "REAL" plant bank for us please. You say, "or gradually switch the plants over to normal water and they may revert to normal growth patterns". Let me emphasize your word "MAY". I would think a real seed bank has seeds from real plants, not plants that have been modified dramatically and may or may not germinate true.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re:How long will a post-apocalyptic population las (Score:3, Interesting)
You're supposed to plant them. :p
But rather than traditional nuclear winter scenarios, I think it's a good idea in case any of the bio-engineered crops ever goes rogue, or some freak disease or pest wipes out a species. How many hurricanes would it take to wipe out, say, the localized strains of rice in a region? One year of disasters? Two? Five?
Or one particularly pernicious bio-engineered cross breeding that produces sterile (no seed) offspring?
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
0 Degrees now or then? (Score:2)
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)
Oh Great. (Score:4, Funny)
Re: (Score:3, Insightful)
The north pole? (Score:3, Funny)
It would make a good movie. (Score:5, Funny)
Kind of like a cross between "The Postman" and "Waterworld".
Okay, I lied about the "good" part.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
The seven continents are destroyed by robots we created and must set out in a rag tag fleet of ships across the world in search of a mythological place called SeedVault.
Along the way there will be plenty of wobbling cameras and infighting and they might even find a temporary home along the way.
or book, or game... (Score:5, Funny)
Imagine, it starts out in some desolate village, with people scraping by on a few mutant crops and canned goods. Every year, the situation becomes a little more desperate as the crops produce few viable seeds and the canned goods are running out. Our intrepid hero (probably a moon-headed youth out exploring some old ruins instead of working) finds a fragment of an ancient magazine mentioning the seed-vault. He has some difficulty convincing his elders to invest any of the villages precious food-stuffs in his hair-brained scheme, but then the village seed stocks are plundered by raiders, leaving no choice. Of course, the raiders find out about the seed-vault and thus become recurring bad-guys throughout the rest of the story.
The journey to the seed-vault would be fraught with danger. Mutants, savages, the ever-present raiders, hot-zones and weather run amok all dog our heros on their journey. I say heros, because of course we need a team. There has to be the strong and capable ranger-type who doesn't quite trust the kid; the plucky heroine, tomboyish until she lets her hair down and we discover just how beautiful she is; the kid's geeky friend who knows how to fix things; the brawny muscle-type with a secret heart of gold who sacrifices himself when all seems lost, and the sneaky one who turns out to be a traitor like we always suspected he would.
When they finally get there, they discover... well, it could go lots of ways here. I'll leave it up to the imagination.
Parent
Re: (Score:3)
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
"How am I supposed to get to these seeds in a post-apocalyptic world?"
With this [snowcrest.net].Might feed the survivers.... (Score:2)
Um, I'm hungry... (Score:2)
Bees (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
yeah. (Score:5, Funny)
I don't think Unicron likes seeds.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Re: (Score:2)
The solution to that is simple. They'll use a Chairface laser to carve the location into the moon's surface.
Re:yeah. (Score:4, Funny)
Oooohhhh... I was wondering why scientists were in such a hurry to change the classification of Pluto to a non-planet last year...
Parent
Some thoughts... (Score:5, Insightful)
But a single vault in an inaccessible area? Let's consider the situation. If the world is 'post-apocalyptic', that means some seriously bad stuff has happened. To assume that whatever happened was so selective as to leave the worldwide transport infrastructure needed to take the seeds and "feed a hungry planet" but happened to kill all seed stores and food sources... requires a stretch of the imagination that would snap a logical mind.
I'm all for dramatic story summaries that play fast and loose with the facts to get me to- hey, wait a second, no I'm not.
Here's a sci-fi plot (Score:5, Funny)
o_O
Re:Here's a sci-fi plot (Score:5, Interesting)
Or maybe an H. P. Lovecraft story...
Scientists go to the North Pole build a doomsday vault so that they will have food in case of a global catastrophe. They discover that a hidden chamber with alien hieroglyphics on the seal. Through careful study and in-depth analysis they decipher the code and learn that WE are the doomsday vault that an ancient race prepared in case of a global catastrophe. The seal is broken. The Old Ones begin to return from the deep unknown to feed.
Parent
Ah, shoot... (Score:2, Funny)
Not for immediate use doofuses (Score:5, Insightful)
Version control for botany (Score:2)
That's what I'm thinking - it's really unlikely we'll ever need to use it as a true "doomsday store". But as a reference for older genetic strains from a certain timeframe...
I hope they keep up regular deposits of things.
Seed Variety A Very Big Issue (Score:4, Insightful)
While doomsday headlines right off the Weekly World News attract eyeballs, the reality is that this seed storage facility may be far more beneficial than most people realize.
Distributed Repositories (Score:5, Interesting)
Since seeds are cheap why not distribute storage repositories around the globe?
Nonetheless I am thankful that the Norwegians are doing this for potentially all of humanity.
Come to think about it, I suppose the fact that our collective genome is stuck on this planet is akin to putting all your eggs in a single fragile basket.
Re: (Score:2)
I am cynical but the escape to space seems not really a good idea. If we're not capable of keeping one planet in good health for the climate, the life varieties, and our fellow humans, we don't really deserve to colonize other places.
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Yup you are....
but the escape to space seems not really a good idea. If we're not capable of keeping one planet in good health for the climate, the life varieties, and our fellow humans, we don't really deserve to colonize other places.
Looking back at the history of the earth there are dozens of mass or large extinction events that happened without any help from humans at all. The list of possible catastrophes includes
Re: (Score:2)
One step at a time.
What standards are used? (Score:3, Funny)
Post-Apocalyptic Giant Mutant Birds Say THANK YOU! (Score:5, Funny)
Just one problem... (Score:4, Insightful)
So... (Score:2)
(Gotta watch out for those Norveegians and their doomsday lairs!)
dependencies? (Score:3, Insightful)
What about patents? (Score:5, Insightful)
People naively assume that since the climate ruins the entire planet, nobody really wants climate changes to happen. This is just a random assumption. A polluted planet means man is not free to breath air, drink water, procreate. And those who have the knowledge to make food water air or babies in that polluted world, rule it.
Seed Vault Gap (Score:3, Funny)
A good idea... (Score:5, Informative)
Sneaky Norwegians... (Score:5, Funny)
2) Cause Apocalypse
3) Profit!!
Too Much Emphasis on the "Doomsday" Aspects (Score:5, Insightful)
We're really shooting ourselves in our collective foot by the "efficiencies" being implemented in modern farming. Where before there might have been numerous different and diverse varieties of a plant--potatoes, say, or tomatoes, beans, peas, or apples--now farmers concentrate on just a few that are high-yielding or easy to control or that are otherwise "efficient." The same holds true of animals used for food. Many formerly robust breeds of pigs or chickens or beef cattle are now verging on extinction because it's cheaper to focus on raising one or two breeds.
What happens if a blight or pest shows up that devastates our few varieties of corn or wheat? Suppose the more popular breed of swine or chicken develops some sort of genetic anomaly or other disease? I believe (but am not sure) that there's already been a scare regarding corn. It could happen with any other food plant.
Interested hobbyist gardeners have been forming "seed savers" groups for years to perpetuate what they call "heirloom" vegetables. (They do it for ornamental plants, too.) More recently, small-scale farmers and hobbyists have begun doing the same thing with "heritage" livestock animals such as turkeys, chickens, and swine.
There's an interest in these products among food lovers (fancy restaurants, famous chefs, or what-have you). Heirloom tomatoes and heritage pork are deemed to be a lot tastier than the everyday supermarket varieties, and I suspect that may be true. But more attention needs to be paid to preserving all these breeds and varieties so that our food plants and animals retain the robustness that comes from diversity.
Norway is rich 'cause it fired the oil companies (Score:3, Informative)
They nationalized the oil industry. They don't pay tens of billions of dollars a quarter in raw profits to the big four oil corporations. They have their own oil resources in the North Sea.
And since the told the reavers to get the hell out, they are running nice surpluses, have an excellent federally funded school system, giving them intelligent citizens, and they may save the plant diversity of the planet during the coming climate wreck.
Now, if they can fast track some space colonization, they might save humans from getting overheated to death.
These are things you can do if your country isn't being run by international oil companies.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)