Stories
Slash Boxes
Comments

News for nerds, stuff that matters

Slashdot Log In

Log In

Create Account  |  Retrieve Password

2006 Was the Warmest Year Ever

Posted by kdawson on Wed Jan 10, 2007 04:29 AM
from the El-Nino-and-humankind-conspiring dept.
kpw10 writes "Dr. Jeff Masters from Wunderground has a great summary of this year's rather abnormal weather (his blog is the best source on the net for in-depth weather analysis). The post discusses some of the cyclical climate forces at work this year and compares this year's record temperatures to records from the past. There are some interesting differences, particularly in the extent of the northern hemisphere seeing record highs this year." From the article: "December's weather in the Northeast U.S. may have been a case of the weather dice coming up thirteen — weather not seen on the planet since before the Ice Age began, 118,000 years ago. The weather dice will start rolling an increasing number of thirteens in coming years, and an ice-free Arctic Ocean in summertime by 2040 is a very real possibility..." Here is the The National Climatic Data Center's report announcing the entry of 2006 into the record books.
+ -
story

Related Stories

[+] Earth's Temperature at Highest Levels in 400 Years 1044 comments
thatguywhoiam writes "Congress asked, and the scientists have answered: 'The Earth is the hottest it has been in at least 400 years, probably even longer. The National Academy of Sciences, reaching that conclusion in a broad review of scientific work requested by Congress, reported Thursday that the 'recent warmth is unprecedented for at least the last 400 years and potentially the last several millennia.'"
[+] News: Tackling Global Warming Cheaper Than Ignoring It 586 comments
Coryoth writes, "In a report commissioned by the UK government, respected economist Sir Nicholas Stern concludes that mitigating global warming could cost around 1% of global GDP if spent immediately, but ignoring the problem could cost between 5% and 20% of global GDP. The 700-page study represents the first major report on climate change from an economist rather than a scientist. The report calls for the introduction of green taxes and carbon trading schemes as soon as possible, and calls on the international community to sign a new pact on greenhouse emissions by next year rather than in 2010/11. At the very least the UK government is taking the report seriously; both major parties are proposing new green taxes. Stern points out, however, that any action will only be effective if truly global."
This discussion has been archived. No new comments can be posted.
The Fine Print: The following comments are owned by whoever posted them. We are not responsible for them in any way.
 Full
 Abbreviated
 Hidden
More
Loading... please wait.
  • by antifoidulus (807088) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @04:41AM (#17536700) Homepage Journal
    are either closed or operating at significantly reduced loads. Hell, some of the places in Austria are suggesting hiking trips instead of skiing this year. Here in Bavaria, we had(so I'm told) one of the coldest winters in the past 20 years last year, and this year I have only had to deal with frost twice(which is nice because I am on a bike)

    Meanwhile Colorado seems to be getting more snow than the rest of the world combined(I'm only being a tad dramatic there). They probably have the best skiing in the world this year, but the airports are always closed so nobody can get there!
    • by WindBourne (631190) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @04:59AM (#17536802) Journal
      No, the bulk of the snow is on the eastern side of the divide (i.e. denver). The snow is maybe a bit above average for this time of year (but the snow is nice). If you want lots of snow, try the northwest.

      As to the airport closure, it was actually only closed for 36 hrs for the first storm only. On the second storm, airlines assumed a closure would happen and flights were manipulated. As it was, the airport never closed. The storm hit hard to the south east. Had the storm moved just 41 miles north, then most likely DIA would have been closed for 48 hours or more.

      But in my 25 years of living in Colorado, this is the first time that I have seen this much snow on the ground at this time of year. It reminds me of xmas in south wisc (which actually had no snow).
    • Not just hotter (Score:5, Insightful)

      by wrmrxxx (696969) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:11AM (#17536874)
      In the Victorian Alps (south eastern Australia) the ski season was a dismal flop due to lack of snow. Due to the drought there wasn't enough water for snow making either. But on Christmas day (which is summer here of course), there was a large snow storm up in the mountains: more snow than there was during winter. My entirely unscientific impression of the recent weather is not just that it's getting hotter - it's getting weirder.
      • Weirder indeed (Score:5, Informative)

        by Pegasus (13291) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:35AM (#17537014) Homepage
        This just shows that people don'r really understand what global warming means. Sure, temperatures are going to be one or two degrees higher ON AVERAGE, but that does not mean warmer winters and hotter summers in general. It means that the system as a whole will have more energy, so weather phenomena will be more intensive and fluctuations will have higer amplitude. Think of more powerful storms, more destructive hurricanes, etc. Cold winter 2005 and warmest year 2006 is a nice example of such fluctuation.
        • by Khammurabi (962376) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @10:02AM (#17539364)
          This just shows that people don'r really understand what global warming means.
          Most people erroneously lump global warming together as both the cause and effect. More clearly stated, "Global Warming" is the term that aptly describes humanity as producing an inordinate amount of greenhouse gases, which in turn is allowing the earth to trap much more of the sun's rays and converting them into heat. Whereas "Global Climate Change" is the likely effect of this process.

          - Fact: Humanity is producing a considerable amount of greenhouse gases.
          - Fact: Greenhouse gases cause more sunlight to be converted into heat.

          Here is where the discussion usually breaks down into fisticuffs. We do know that this unnatural stress on the environment (global warming) will cause the global climate to change. However, we do NOT know exactly what will happen in response to this stress. In the past, global warming was a gradual process, as flora and fauna produce greenhouse gases naturally at a much reduced rate. This time the stress is acute, and we have no real past historical basis to predict what will happen.

          Personally, I'm with the scientists on this one. (That this is most likely a "bad thing".) Earth has a nasty habit of responding with mass extinctions whenever it gets hit with something big and bad. However, there is a slim possibility that the earth will just "get warmer", which is not entirely a bad thing, but would make dwindling fresh water supplies a real cause for war and conflict.

          So to sum up, "global warming" will most likely cause "global climate change". However, we don't know what exactly will change, but it's likely it'll be bad for us.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        Indeed. I'm off to Serre-Chevalier myself on Friday, with 90cm/25cm it isn't perfect. Even so, most of the slopes are open and they're expecting a bit of snow over the next few days, so it'll be okay. GP is a bit alarmist.

        Happy boarding! Besides, if it turns out bad we can always go to Norway next year...

  • by kihjin (866070) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @04:51AM (#17536760)
    You know, Michigan's upper peninsula. "Normally" we get about 200" of snow in a winter season [mtu.edu]. So far this season we've had one major snow storm, leaving us with approximiately 18". That's all. In December 2005, 77.5" fell. I would be surprised if we got a 1/10 of that in 2006.
    • by merikari (205531) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @07:54AM (#17537810) Homepage
      January is the coldest month in Finland. Usually we have had snow cover by November/December. This year, there has been one freak snowstorm in the beginning of November, and right now it's raining outside. No snow cover for two winter months. Not your typical winter in Finland where temperatures in January can be -20 to -30 degrees Centigrade.

      Disclaimer: I know weather does not equal climate.
  • Pollute more (Score:5, Informative)

    by Swimport (1034164) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @04:58AM (#17536796) Homepage
    If it wasnt for Global Dimming http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_dimming [wikipedia.org] this would be worse. However, since particulate pollution is being cut more than C02 global dimming is falling behind global warming.
  • by reklusband (862215) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:13AM (#17536884)
    Think about it...Hot Eskimo chicks in BIKINIS!!! Just give it ten years.
  • It's summer here (Score:4, Interesting)

    by scdeimos (632778) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:28AM (#17536968)
    weather not seen on the planet since before the Ice Age began, 118,000 years ago.
    Indeed. Southern hemisphere here and this is the first summer I *haven't* had to turn on the chiller on my aquariums to stop my fish from dying - it's been nowhere near as hot as it normally is.
  • Solution! (Score:4, Funny)

    by clickclickdrone (964164) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:39AM (#17537366) Homepage
    Global warming is making everything hotter, ice is melting, seas are rising. We're all in deep doodo. Now, back in the 80's we were all panicking about Nuclear Winters which would freeze us all in the case of a nuclear war (as if the radiation and big holes in the ground weren't enough hassle).
    I notice in the news that Israel is thought to be preparing a nuclear strike on Irans nuclear facilities with Neutron bombs. That ought to kick of a nuclear war quite nicely so we're all saved!
    Well, it sort of makes sense...
  • by popo (107611) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @07:52AM (#17537798) Homepage
    I'm looking at you Microsoft.
  • by guidryp (702488) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @07:58AM (#17537838)
    The pattern I see from those in the denial business is not one of serious honest skepticism, but of cheap shots, hazy generalizations, unsupported assertions, cherry picking research data out of context etc. There is no new facts that they wish to present. They only wish to undermine the facts of human influence on climate change.

    To counter information about melting glaciers they will point out that certain parts of Greenland has accumulating glaciers, but they leave out the information that this was predicted as the edges of the glacier melt more rapidly and result in more snowfall inland. The also leave out that there is still a net loss.

    Another ridiculous claim was that 1998 was the hottest year and we have not been getting hotter since and therefore climate models are broken (I saw this in a newspaper article in the last few months) It neglects that 1998 had a strong El Nino and thus was somewhat anomalous, and that 2005 was as hot or even hotter than 1998 (depending on data, google hottest year on record) or that 2006 was quite warm and turns out it will now have the record.

    Bottom Line: We dump billions of tons of C02 (heat trapping gas) into the atmosphere annually and it is accumulating. How could this not be having an effect? Wishful thinking?

    I think we owe to future generations to at least make an effort to slow the damage we are doing.

    Higher energy taxes, more renewables, more nuclear plants, higher CAFE standards would be a start. The climate deniers will whine that this might cost the economy $$$, but seriously do you really think it will be that much of a net cost, how about the Trillion dollars spent on misadventures in Iraq? Would it cost more than that?

    Consider the trade deficit benefits of importing less oil, the price for oil would probably drop along with this further improving the deficit. Conservation efforts will have offsetting economic benefits. Putting money into locally constructed nuclear or renewables is money kept in country and not sent out to purchase oil from volatile regions.

    Until we find Earth 2, we need to treat Earth 1 with a tad more respect.
  • by Darth Daver (193621) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @08:36AM (#17538240)
    And by "Ever" we mean since the 1860's, which is the limit of accurate records. If you try to estimate temperatures based upon other data (gases in ice core samples, tree rings, etc.), there were years warmer than this one including the medieval period and a time when the arctic circle was tropical, long before SUVs.
  • Analogy (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Metasquares (555685) <slashdot@metHORS ... minus herbivore> on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:11AM (#17538660) Homepage
    Let's say that instead of climate change, a large meteor was headed for the planet in, say, 2029. Would we argue for twenty years over whether mankind's radio emissions (or whatever) caused the meteor to near the earth or would we try to think up ways of doing something about it?

    I personally think that climate change is caused by increased CO2 emissions from human industry because all of the theory supports it, but it honestly doesn't matter. We have a major problem. We can either point fingers endlessly like a bunch of 5 year olds, or we can try to solve it before it becomes a catastrophe.
  • by HoneyBeeSpace (724189) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:30AM (#17538922) Homepage
    ENSO is the El Nino Southern Oscillation. If you'd like to simulate global warming and El Nino / La Nina cycles yourself you can do some of the experiments discussed in the article. The EdGCM [columbia.edu] project has wrapped a NASA global climate model (GCM) in a GUI (OS X and Win). You can add CO2 or turn the sun down by a few percent all with a checkbox and a slider. Supercomputers and advanced FORTRAN programmers are no longer necessary to run your own GCM.

    Disclaimer: I'm the project developer.
  • Here in Maine... (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Civil_Disobedient (261825) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:31AM (#17538934)
    This has been one of the weakest winters on record. Simultaneously, last Spring was one of the wettest on record. Don't know if there's any correlation between the two of those, but I do know that it's been in the 50s (F) for a few days this week, which is simply insane. We've had perhaps two miserly snowfalls (less than a couple of inches accumulated). The average temperature for December was up 10 degrees from the average.

    From the National Weather Service:

    The average temperature of 34.5 degrees tied 1996 as the second warmest December on record. The warmest December was 34.8 degrees in 2001. In contrast, the coldest December was in 1989 with an average temperature of 14.1 degrees. Normally December has as average of 27.6 degrees.
    [...]
    The average high temperature for the month was a record 43.3 degrees. The old record was 42.8 degrees in 1953. The coldest high temperature was 24.7 degrees in 1989 and the normal December average high temperature is 36.4 degrees.
    [...]
    The average low temperature for the month was 25.6 degrees, warm enough to be the 3rd warmest on record. The warmest average low temperature was 27.8 degrees in 1996 followed by 26.8 degrees in 2001. The coldest average low temperature was 3.4 degrees in 1989 and the normal December average low temperature is 18.7 degrees.
    [...]
    The temperature never got below zero degrees in December. In fact, the coldest reading was only 9 degrees and that didn't occur until the last day of the month.
    [...]
    The warmest temperature for the month was 61 degrees on the 1st.
    I'm going to have to move to Canada if I ever want to see a white Christmas again.
  • well no (Score:5, Informative)

    by Budenny (888916) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:45AM (#17539132)
    It was not globally the warmest year ever.

    It may have been, in North America, the warmest year, by a small amount, for a couple hundred years. Its a bit different. We have also the Holcene Warm Period, and the Medieval Warm Period to worry about, before pronouncing last year the warmest ever.

    Global warming may or may not be happening, but headlines like this do not help convince anyone.
    • by Nanpa (971527) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:17AM (#17536910)

      Climate Change is real, it is man made and only people who think New Earth Creationism is a good idea could be so dumb as to ignore it.

      That's quite a strawman you've got there.

      and there are loads.... okay one... decent scientist who says it isn't Man made or true or nothing

      Exactly correct. Everyone knows that the present of a specific scientific principle is decided by a central committee and then approved by the electorate at large. It's an excellent system, look how the Catholic church managed to keep us at the centre of universe!

        • by MrFlibbs (945469) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:23AM (#17538826)
          This is an excellent point, but it cuts both ways. As you've pointed out, the available evidence during the Middle Ages made an Earth-centered universe viable. Thus, it was entirely possible to rigorously follow the scientific method and still conclude we are at the center.

          Rigorously scientific, and quite wrong. This is something that's overlooked all too often -- Science can never promise Truth. The best any theory can hope for is to be very well verified. Please don't get me wrong -- the Scientific Method works better than any other method known to us. We can never know with absolute certainty that our conclusions are true, but using any other method is much worse. I'm not advocating that we replace Science with something else; I'm just pointing out that the conclusions are never absolute.

          This is something to keep in mind with the current global warming debate. The evidence suggests that human burning of carbon fuels is a big part of the problem. A strong majority of Scientists across multiple disciplines are convinced we need to do something about it. But they could be wrong.
          • by E++99 (880734) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @10:09AM (#17539488) Homepage
            This is something to keep in mind with the current global warming debate. The evidence suggests that human burning of carbon fuels is a big part of the problem. A strong majority of Scientists across multiple disciplines are convinced we need to do something about it. But they could be wrong.

            Yes, but when scientists "across multiple disciplines" are all weighing in on what the right conclusion should be on a question of climate science, that's a pretty good indication that something other than science is going on.
    • by ElephanTS (624421) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:17AM (#17536918)
      Well said, refreshing to read that.

      I just read in 'Revenge of Gaia' that this period of warming may take 100,000 years to subside. R'uh-oh.

      A critical fact in Al Gore's film: after compiling the results of 1,100 serious scientific papers about GW not one suggests that it is anything but man's fault. The percentage of journalistic articles suggesting that it may not be man's fault: 53%.

      That's where this argument stems from I think. That and big oil sponsored research. Additionally It's very hard for a /.er to see past the techno-fix as this is the general mindset here.

      • by digitalhermit (113459) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @07:47AM (#17537760) Homepage

        A critical fact in Al Gore's film: after compiling the results of 1,100 serious scientific papers about GW not one suggests that it is anything but man's fault. The percentage of journalistic articles suggesting that it may not be man's fault: 53%.


        This is an extremely important point. From reading regular articles, many people believe that the scientific community is evenly balanced on the question of whether human activity is causing global warming.

        There's a trap in journalism that can cause this. In an effort for scientifically untrained reporters to report "fairly", they may try to get both sides of a story, even if the other side is not scientifically valid. This leads to the disproportionate number that you quoted above.

        That said, there are enough reports that news articles and supposedly scientific studies have been influenced by corporations that I can't blame the journalists entirely.
              • by MyNymWasTaken (879908) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @01:35PM (#17543290)
                We don't know *anything* with a 100% certainty. However, it is better to base decisions off all available facts rather than "what if"s.

                You can't infer any correlation [...] with the limited dataset provided above.

                Exactly. So let's fill out the known facts in that situation.
                Planetary Fact Sheet [nasa.gov]

                Venus
                • CO2 by volume: 96.5% (965,000ppm)
                • Surface Pressure: 92 Bars
                • Distance from Sun: 108.2 million km
                • Average temperature: 464C
                Earth
                • Distance from Sun: 149.6 million km
                • Surface Pressure: 1 Bar
                • CO2 by volume: 350ppm
                • Average temperature: 15C
                Mars
                • Distance from Sun: 227.9 million km
                • Surface Pressure: 0.01 Bars
                • CO2 by volume: 95.32% (953,200ppm)
                • Average temperature: -63C (yes, minus)

                Given those facts, it is very easy to come to substantiated conclusions about CO2's effect, as well as solar intensity's effect, on temperature.

                My point is that there are more factors affecting temperature than the amount of CO2 in the atmosphere.

                Your point was made by ignoring key facts and going "well, gee... what if?"
            • by Pentagram (40862) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:32AM (#17537308) Homepage
              The first thing I thought when I saw those charts was 'correlation doesn't equal causation'.

              You're joking right? Correlation does not *necessarily* imply causation but it gives you the right to be damned suspicious that it does. And this is a very good correlation, with a known scientific model that points to causation.
              • by sholden (12227) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:50AM (#17537412) Homepage
                You mean the model in which when you heat up water the solubility of CO2 decreases, so warmer temperatures would cause CO2 levels to increase?

                Or the one in which CO2 increases cause a greenhouse effect so increasing CO2 levels cause warmer temperatures?

    • Quoting from http://www.junkscience.com/ [junkscience.com] on this article:

      "s it happens we're just reformatting the thermometer graphic to give people a better idea of global mean temperatures and trends. Using a thousand less-urbanized sites from the METAR database suggests the last year (calendar date to calendar date, in this case) was about as near average as can be expected, within a tenth of a degree of the calculated mean without any enhanced greenhouse forcing.

      Is the world really hot and getting hotter? That's a ver
    • by Xugumad (39311) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:13AM (#17537206)
      What amuses/terrifies me is the people that argue that global warming isn't humanity's fault, and as such we don't have to do anything about it. I mean, the apocalypse may be coming, but if we didn't cause it, no point in us trying to stop it *shakes head quietly*
    • by vhogemann (797994) <victor.hogemann@eti@br> on Wednesday January 10 2007, @07:48AM (#17537764) Homepage
      AFAIK the industrial economy of the USA is heavily subsidized by the government, especially the heavy industry, like metallurgic plants.

      With such subsidies, industries tend to invest less on their infra-structure, use less than optimal processes, be less productive and pollute more.

      I think that the real problem here is that the USA don't want to pay the price that everybody else already payed to be able to compete on the global market. Take for example the metallurgic industry, here at Brazil we have the most competitive, and efficient, plants... yet the Brazilian steel has a hard time to enter into the USA market because of the subsidies.

      If anything, investing on more modern equipment, that pollute less and is more efficient, would drive the USA industry forwards and probably increase the number of jobs. But its easier to rely on governments subsidies.

      Just my $0.02
      • by Pentagram (40862) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:18AM (#17537232) Homepage
        Any proposed solution that involves hurting the economies of the nations with resources to actually deal with the problem is not the answer.

        Whilst it would be desirable to have a solution to climate change that does not involve hurting the economy (and I believe this is certainly possible), we should get our priorities straight. I would not want a bigger television at the expense of living in a filthy polluted desert.
            • by c6gunner (950153) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @08:20AM (#17538036)
              Eh, no, sorry, not quite. All that Kyoto buys is more coal-powered plants for third world nations. If anything Kyoto is more likely to harm the environment, and is, in any event, more of a wealth redistribution scheme than it is an environmental management plan.

              It's also funny to note that the country which "hates the worlds children" has made bigger strides in combating GHG emissions than several Kyoto signatories.

              But hey, who needs facts and logic when you can get all your opinions from the "down with HaliBusHitler" maniacs, eh?
        • Hard to argue (Score:4, Insightful)

          by PopeRatzo (965947) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @10:17AM (#17539598) Homepage Journal
          For years the Right in America tried to argue that there was no global warming. Finally, what was merely overwhelming research showing that there was indeed warming became impossible to argue, so now the Right tries to argue that "OK, there's global warming, but it's not our fault".

          People who are trying so hard to pretend that there is no harm at all in fouling our environment can no longer be taken seriously by the rest of us. We're trying to patiently explain to these knuckleheads that there has to be something done to turn around the damage we're doing to the environment, and while we're arguing, nothing is being done. China will soon (maybe a decade) have a bigger economy than ours and how are we supposed to tell them to back off from all the growth so we don't destroy our environment when we can't even get our own act together?

          The Right-Wing in America is being used by multinationals to stall on any sort of effort to change things, so for the foreseeable future, it's going to be more of the same. There's just no more time to waste trying to convince people who believe the Earth is 6000 years old and that Jesus is going to come any day now to take them home that we have to act to protect the world for our grandkids.

          I mean really: "What about the Martian icecaps?"?? Is that the latest Investors Business Daily meme to try to keep record profits flowing into the coffers of Shell?
          • by Captain Hook (923766) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @08:45AM (#17538356)
            The Southern Hemisphere, in particular, does not seem to be warming noticeably.
            That's because heat rises to the top and the southern hemisphere is at the bottom. Any fool knows that ;-)
          • by TapeCutter (624760) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @10:25AM (#17539708) Journal
            "The Southern Hemisphere, in particular, does not seem to be warming noticeably."

            I am sitting naked in my spare room in Melbourne Australia, it is about 2:30AM and simply too hot and muggy too sleep, there is the smell of smoke from extreme bushfires that started two months early this year. Tasmania has had to import electricity from the mainland due to a lack of water in their hydro scheme, 62% of our grain harvest (~17,000,000 tons) has been lost,....oh fuck it, it's too hot to argue with an AC ludite.
        • by cayenne8 (626475) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @10:30AM (#17539796) Homepage Journal
          "China is said to be bringing one "city sized" coal fired plant online every three weeks, the sooner every nation in the global energy bussiness sits down at the table in good faith and agrees on a scientifically based plan of action the better."

          Trouble is...this isn't just a happy world of cooperating peoples. It is made up of countries in competition for everything! Competition for land...resources...food....economic power. Until there is some kind of one world order (God forbid), this will be the way of things. If something, while good for the world at large, will be detrimental to a country economically, then, it won't be done.

          I don't personally see the 1st world countries willingly sacrificing their lifestyle and world position for the 'greater good'.

          No one claws their way to the top, just to willingly let go and slide back down, no matter what the cause....

          • by 99BottlesOfBeerInMyF (813746) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @12:43PM (#17542368)

            First of all the planet can easily sustain a populous double our current size, if people would just use the grey matter known as our brains that we have been greatly blessed with.

            Of course we can, we just have to be more efficient and cooperative and/orreduce our quality of living. But, since that isn't happening because people like you revile the concept of cooperation claiming it is opposed to natural selection, expect to be naturally selected and removed from the populace or have your quality of living greatly reduced.

            I hear so many of the far leftists say "stop breeding" and such mantra to that effect...

            "Leftists? Left and right are artificial political assignations used to oversimplify politics so it can be superficially reported to people with below average IQs. Trying to imply that those assigned to the left end of the spectrum think others should stop breeding is a big stretch. It sounds a lot more like you're looking to vilify a group, out of mental laziness.

            ...but you are unquestionably the most promiscuous people there are.

            Umm, I don't think you are properly using the word "unquestionably." Promiscuity has a strong positive relationship with poverty, low education rates, and adherence to particular religions including catholicism and some protestant sects. Those traits have a negative correlation with members of political groups generally assigned to the "left." I'd say it is more than questionable. Just as a side note, calling groups "hypocritical is meaningful only if you can demonstrate that contradictory actions are those of an individual, or large number of individuals. If half of the people in a town publicly claim guns are evil and half are gun owners the town is not hypocritical.

            It will be a very long time before we have discovered all of the species of the ocean, let alone consumed said species.

            Perhaps you're misunderstanding the meaning of "sustainable." It means live in such a way that our supplies will not run out in the foreseeable future. If we're gradually reducing the number of species by consuming them, we're not behaving in a sustainable manner.

            Again, there are laws of selection that nature lives by, and if left alone all will balance out.

            This is a weak cop out. It is simply a denial of responsibility. "Nature" will take care of things. It is true, but the way it takes care of things might be to eliminate our species or kill off large portion in a slow and painful way, like starvation. One of the defining traits of humanity is intelligence. Thus we define goals and then logically address how best to achieve those goals. Depending upon your definitions that may or may not be "natural."

            This 'make everyone equal (financially) so they can all have the same lobster dinner' and such mentality...

            Wow, way to cram a lot of logical fallacies into a small amount of words. Argument by association is where you assume people that hold one view must hold another (worried about global warming means you must favor extreme socialism) and then you argue against the second point without ever addressing the first point. This is wrong because people don't all hold the same sets of opinions and because even if the second opinion is wrong, it does not mean the first one is.

            ...even I (who convenes regularly with friends who are marine biologists and assure me otherwise) am starting to wonder the validity of the leftist "we are killing the ocean" propaganda.

            The "left" is a nebulous assignation. By definition it cannot crete propaganda. More importantly, propaganda requires a deceitful motivation. What is the motivation of marine biologists and fishing organizations around the world to misstate the facts about fishing harvest sizes. How come most of the fish I can now buy in the supermarket was considered to be "junk" 50 years ago and not suitable for people to eat since other types were plentiful and better? Is i

    • by stsp (979375) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @05:17AM (#17536916) Homepage
      Could this really be avoided? Is it still time to revert those climate changes? Shouldn't we be preparing for the worse yet? Instead of deciding whether or not it's really happening ?
      Well, according to Douglas Adams' stories, people start to panic only when it is already way too late to do something about the situation.
    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      Firstly the hurricanes were dwarfed by the El Nino effect. This wasn't known at the time the predictions were made. As for the question about the deep freezes that's a misunderstanding. Global Warming is a misnomer, a more accurate name would be Global Climate Change. On average the earth is warmer, however in the short term you are going to end up with more extreme weather. You will end up with places that deep freeze, other places that face rather sudden flash floods, as well as extreme winds and drought.
      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        Not to mention all sorts of fun deceases you are not used to. Warmer weather means some of the insects will migrate carrying fun stuff like malaria or sleeping sickness.

        It's going to be real fun trying to survive in a few decades if we don't deal with the problems right now.
      • by werewolf1031 (869837) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:20AM (#17537240) Homepage
        Inconvenient truth is pretty much boring for the educated people - there's nothing in it that I wouldn't know already. I can't help but feel sorry for people who find it creepy or shocking - that just shows they live in some dark basement or something
        Your attitude is self-righteous, narcissistic, and condescending. It is far better to have learned something for the first time, than to never have learned it at all. I can't help but feel sorry for people who too-easily forget that they, too, once learned something for the first time, when it was new to them.
    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      This post has been made with my current understanding of the problem; if a more informed person can correct me wherever I am wrong, I'd be grateful.

      Ok. You use the logical fallacy "straw man" twice. "this is the fallacy of refuting a caricatured or extreme version of somebody's argument, rather than the actual argument they've made. Often this fallacy involves putting words into somebody's mouth by saying they've made arguments they haven't actually made"

      For instance. You imply that "green eco-activists" sa
      • by A beautiful mind (821714) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @06:35AM (#17537336)
        which would remain stable were it not for our interference.
        But of course, it would! On a human scale. The entire point with global warming is, that while naturally occuring changes do happen, they don't treaten us because we can adapt over the long periods of time the change is happening, but with global warming the paradox is that 40-50 years is FAST even compared to human standards, because 40-50 years mean reorganizing the economy on large scale, which can't be done if the issue of GW is ignored in the sense of doing nothing about it.

        Personally, I never subscribe to the "we can't possibly understand it" argument. That also explains my deeply atheistic beliefs.
      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        So the choice is:

        1. Try. Make the environment cleaner in the process and more friendly to other species. Develop technologies that will also help human survive the hotter environment as a side effect.

        2. Don't try. Either hope maybe - just maybe - it's not happenning at all or that all the effort is useless anyway. Blindly carry on as far as possible without inconvenciencing oneself and either get *really* lucky and all the statistical data was just an error, or die happily as one of the two hundred last hum
        • by Pentagram (40862) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @08:42AM (#17538332) Homepage
          Just to address a couple of points in your ill-informed confused rant:

          We're putting a LOT of heat out, as well as large amounts of CO2. So anecdotally it seems credible to me.

          The amount of heat we produce is negligible. The major concern is the CO2 we are producing which is trapping the sun's heat.

          But the earth is a BIG system. Almost inconceivably big. Larger shifts in CO2 and temp have occurred historically, and just as quickly, long before humans showed up.

          This is completely wrong. This is, to the best of our ability to measure it, the fastest increase in CO2 levels (and, not conicidentally, temperature) in the history of the Earth.

          There seems to be a common theme in arguments against taking action against climate change: Just Making Shit Up.
        • by Coryoth (254751) on Wednesday January 10 2007, @01:38PM (#17543354) Homepage Journal
          A few points worth discussing:

          Larger shifts in CO2 and temp have occurred historically, and just as quickly, long before humans showed up.

          I would be interested to know how you justify that claim. We do have decent historical carbon dioxide records via ice cores, and temperature proxies, but the high resolution short term data doesn't support your claim at all, and the longer term data which does, at least, provide significant changes in carbon dioxide and temperature are simply of far too poor a resolution to make any claims about "just as quickly": ice core co2 records that cover previous interglacial periods have resolution of around 500 years; moreover they don't show changes in carbon dioxide as large as what we are currently witnessing; records that go further back to periods with significantly higher carbon dioxide levels have resolution that is orders of magnitude worse.

          Is the result of climate warming bad? NOBODY seems to know, although we managed to live quite successfully at lower tech levels and higher temps at regular periods in our history.

          When mankind lived through previous changes in glacial/interglacial change the rate of change was more than likely slower. More significantly the lower technology levels of the time (and, equally importantly, lower populations) likely actually helped: humans were sparsely spread and nomadic - if climate changed then groups ould easily move to new areas. What we face now is a far denser population where any movement of significant percentages of population with have dramatic effects, and significant amounts of investment in fixed non-moile infrastructure. We can't just pick up and move all our farming infrastructure somewhere else at the drop of a hat - any transition would be costly and significant. Ultimately if you want an accounting of costs then ask an economist. The UK government did, and the result is the Stern Review [hm-treasury.gov.uk] from Nicholas Stern, a world respected economist. By his accounting (and it was an extremely detailed and in depth study - some 700 pages of report) the effects will be detrimental. Expect more such reports from other economists in the near future.

          Can the human activity be changed such that the effect is altered, and what is the opportunity cost for doing so? [This is] really [what is] under argument. Environmentalists stamping their sandal-clad feet and crying that "we have to" is unpersuasive. And a report claiming that global warming is going to cost X is (nearly) meaningless unless it's compared to the Y cost of mitigation.

          At this point I would again direct you to the Stern Review [hm-treasury.gov.uk] which is specifically what you ask for: an accounting of the costs of both inaction, and a comparison of those costs with an equally detailed accounting of the costs of mitigation. The results were that, providing mitigation action was taken sooner rather than later, the costs of mitigation efforts would more than repay themselves within 50 years. Indeed, costs of mitigation could amount to around 1% of global GDP if taken now, while inaction was expected to cost between 5% and 20% of global GDP by 2050. And just to reiterate: this was a detailed report from a respected economist (former chief economist for the World Bank), not a bunch of "sandal clad hippies".
    • Re:Ever? (Score:5, Insightful)

      by Dystopian Rebel (714995) * on Wednesday January 10 2007, @09:58AM (#17539318) Journal
      Your argument is that our data are statistically insignificant. Your general position, I assume, is that people should be rational and not panic. I agree with the latter but the former is a flawed argument.

      Much of the planet's 4 billion years has been spent in a slow process of stabilization. Complex life is relatively recent (and therefore, you would say, "statistically insignificant"). Human existence is even less statistically significant among all life. However, the conditions for human life have been favourable during this "statistically insignificant" period. So it ~is~ a reasonable inquiry to analyze this period and conclude that something is changing in what we can prove has been relatively constant for us and other creatures.

      Since I doubt that you breathe car exhaust and eat plastics, I assume you understand the threat to the environment and biodiversity that 6-8-10 billion humans represent, that the collapse of the food chain is no fantasy, and that man-made pollutants have permeated the biosphere.

      There are several points of interdependency between living things and climate. We are affecting both in ways that must be evident to people who give themselves the trouble to think, observe, and read. It is reasonable to conclude that human activity is at least a significant contributing factor in any remarkable change, because our impact on the environment has been significant.

      There are planetary processes that we cannot control. But we are affecting things that affect planetary processes.