Nova Scotia to Build Space Tourist Launchpad

Identity Missing writes "Lockheed Martin is planning on building a commercial spaceport in Nova Scotia Canada. The details are a bit shaky, but apparently the project is serious enough to attract 45 million dollars from the Federal government. The launch pad will specifically be built in Cape Breton, a mostly rural island characterized by low employment, thick colloquial accents, and kitchen fiddle parties. A PDF is available with pictures and a description of the planned orbital glider, the 'Silver Dart,' somewhat lacking the aesthetics of the X Prize winner."

Ugh... Another Martimes Boondoggle...

[CohibaVancouver (864662)]

Ugh. Sounds like Premier Peckford's pickle palace all over again. The story of the Maritimes is the story of one failed government 'investment' scheme after another. Let's just admit that now that all the fish have been vacuumed up the economy simply can't support the number of people who live there, and leave it at that. Let economic migration deal with the problem.

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[LWATCDR (28044)]

Hey $27 per cucumber isn't that expensive.

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[chebucto (992517)]

The Maritimes economy is to government subsidies as the BC economy is to pot: yes, it's an important source of income, but a minor part of the whole picture. I, for one, am glad to see people leveraging this region's natural benefits rather than simply giving up and moving away. The spaceport proposal is indeed risky, but if it works it'll be a nice addition to the area; coupled with other efforts (most notably the Atlantica proposal), there is reason enough for people to say and make this region as wealthy

History lesson for you...

[big_paul76 (1123489)]

Dude, where you from? Calgary? I bet you had one of those "let the eastern bastards freeze in the dark" bumper stickers when Trudeau realized that since Canada exports more oil than we consume, we could entirely free ourselves from the world price on oil.

It's only in the last 30 years that "now that all the fish have been vacuumed up the economy simply can't support the number of people who live there" became the dominant way of looking at the Atlantic region.

You know that before Confederation, NS was the m

Re:History lesson for you...

[ShieldW0lf (601553)]

There has been ongoing interest in developing a spaceport in this region for some time. Because of its location, they are able to reuse Russian telemetry data.

This is a great place for such an effort. We are on the ocean and have the worlds deepest harbour nearby. The site is all solid rock, the top of what's left of the Appalachian mountain chain. There is a huge deposit of undersea natural gas nearby waiting to be developed and supply energy needs.

The population here are the most overeducated, underpaid group of people in the country, there are engineers all over the place that were raised in a naval tradition, and one of the major industries of the provincial capital is educating foreigners, so there's a great foundation for inbound brain drain.

They aren't the only company interested in this effort either.

I'm quite looking forward to hopping in the car for a few hours and kicking back in Cape Breton National Park with a case of beer and a joint to watch rocket ships take off.

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[rtyhurst (460717)]

West Coast latte swillin' tofu gobbler!

Me and the boys up Cape Breton way have been "launchin'" for years, 'cept on Newfie Screech not yer fancy new fangled liquid oxygen an' stuff!

Ye'll be laughin' out the other side o' yer face when we're breakin' the sound barrier over yer 200 square foot $1 million West End condo!

Slainte!

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[theshowmecanuck (703852)]

Lard tunderrin jaisus ya talk damn funny boiy. Noew lets strap one o' dem rocket tingies to da back o' m' dory an take a real ride!

apologies to cape bretoners... couldn't help myself.

hey you gotta admit this might be a lot better than shovelling coal.

Space Beer

[WormholeFiend (674934)]

I hope they serve Alexander Keith's on those space flights!

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[MoOsEb0y (2177)]

and Timbits for the in-flight snack!

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[Adambomb (118938)]

If theres no dedicated line for hockey night in canada, whats the point?!

Why Nova Scotia?

[Eightyford (893696)]

Well Nova Scotia isn't very close to the equator (where spaceports belong), but maybe the province will be expanding someday soon?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turks_and_Caicos_Islands [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proposals_for_new_Canadian_provinces_and_territories [wikipedia.org]

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[Baddas (243852)]

Only if you're aiming for equatorial orbits. Polar orbits aren't biased by location.

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[everphilski (877346)]

polar orbits would be dumb for space tourism... space tourism implies regular occurring flights, in order to maximize profit you'd want to make the orbits as 'cheap' velocity wise as possible by using as much of the earths' rotation as possible. Lower latitudes make this possible.

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[sholden (12227)]

It is the southern most Atlantic coastal part of Canada though, right (launching to the east is even more important - it's the reason you want to be near the equator after all)

The parts of Canada that are further south would involve launching over the US.

Or do they have some colonies near the equator to turn into space ports?

Turks And Caicos

[dazedNconfuzed (154242)]

Actually, there have been talks for the Caribbean nation of Turks And Caicos to join Canada.

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[dadragon (177695)]

Actually, there have been talks for the Caribbean nation of Turks And Caicos to join Canada.

They've been ongoing for more that 100 years. I don't expect to see anything anytime soon.

And besides, the article mentions Cape Breton, which is already part of Nova Scotia.

The equator? Tell that to the USSR ...

[l2718 (514756)]

Who built their Cosmodrome [russianspaceweb.com] 3 degrees further North in Baikonur [wikipedia.org].

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[mollymoo (202721)]

Landing sites have different requirements to launch sites. When you launch something into space it helps to be near the equator, because the equator is the fastest moving part of the planet. The greater the speed your rocket starts with from the pad the lesser the push you need to give it to get it to where it's going. That translates to a higher payload for a given type of rocket or a smaller rocket for a given payload.

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[saider (177166)]

But if you are going into polar orbit (or other high inclination orbit) then the equatorial boost becomes a problem because you have to overcome all that momentum.

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[everphilski (877346)]

It is at least viable according to NASA. It has long been listed as one of many emergency landing sites for the space shuttle

Read carefully. Halifax International Airport is one of a handful of sites along eastern North America where the space shuttle could land if something went wrong during liftoff.

In other words, in powered flight in the atmosphere, the shuttle *could* maneuver to Halifax if necessary.

From orbit is an entirely different scenario. You can only land at a location with a latitude l

Weather?

[ScentCone (795499)]

The last time I drove around Cape Breton - it was early October and the colors finally made me understand the red maple leaf on the flag - it was a lovely afternoon. We pitched a small campsite in a place with a name something like "Killmychickencluck," and had a lovely evening. We woke up in the middle of the night to the sound of a bull moose roaming around the camp, and barely fell back asleep. When we woke up again, there was a roughly 2-inch layer of spikey frost on everything. It was spectacular. We tried to talk to the locals about it, but We're Not From Around There, and they didn't take to us very well, I'm afraid. But we were able to gather that the weather just gets more interesting from then until, say, May. Wouldn't it make more sense to park this sort of thing somewhere with a bit more year-round opportunity for doing business, climate-wise? It's a bit of a drive down to Halifax, but there was a lovely Italian place for dinner, and a Holiday Inn with a clean pool. And, men in kilts working the tourist stops. But they had entirely the wrong accent for that, thus producing a sort of Highland Dissonance Syndrome that counteracted all tourist spending urges. Perhaps adding rocket ships to the mix will fix that.

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[Straif (172656)]

If you thought talking to the locals in CB was bad try PEI. Ever since that got that second escalator their smugness has known no bounds.

Re:Weather?

[everphilski (877346)]

And, men in kilts working the tourist stops ... Perhaps adding rocket ships to the mix will fix that.

kilts in space **shudder**

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[l2718 (514756)]

Well, this has the feel of a location chosen by bureaucrats for political reasons rather than be engineers for practical reasons (sorry, I don't have much faith in the government of Canada).

However, the Baikonur Cosmodrome [russianspaceweb.com] is 3 degrees further North and don't have much better weather. This hasn't stopped the Russian (and Soviet) space operations there for more than 50 years.

Dart? Arrow?

[BlueStraggler (765543)]

The Silver Dart name is intended to ride on the coat-tails of the original Silver Dart [wikipedia.org], which also flew out of Nova Scotia. The Canadian Arrow company name also seems to be intended to ride on the coat-tails of the Avro Arrow [wikipedia.org]. So they are trying to associate themselves with the two most famous aircraft in Canadian history, despite having nothing to do with either. And they seem to have overlooked the fact that both of these famous aircraft met ignominious ends, which can't be good for luck.

OK for suborbital and polar orbits, but

[G4from128k (686170)]

The high latitude of Nova Scotia makes it more costly to launch for an equatorial orbit. Getting to GEO or lower-latitude LEO orbit would require more fuel. There's a reason why Arianes launch from French Guiana and not Europe.

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[chebucto (992517)]

Cape Breton's latitude is roughly the same as Baiknour's, which was the main reason why it was chosen.

Chose the spot for a reason?

[SamP2 (1097897)]

Cape Breton is one of the southernmost parts of Canada.

There are clear physical advantages to building spaceports (or any space launch pads) close to the equator, for reasons other than weather. Gravity is lowest at the equator, due to two reasons: one being Earth an oblate shape and thus an equatorial point is furthest from core and thus has least gravity, the other being the centrifugal spin of the Earth which is strongest at the equator. Put together, this accounts for about 2% less weight, which does not seem much, but does make a difference.

If you have noticed, both the USA and USSR chose to build their spaceports as south as possible. The most used USA launch spot is in Florida, and in the USSR the Bainokur cosmodrome is located in Kazakhstan, which is not even a part of Russia anymore, but clearly the benefits gotta outweigh the logistical and political diffculties.

Back on topic of this particular case, once the choice of the country (Canada) has been made, Nova Scotia would seem like a good solution due to the reasons outlined above. The question comes, why Canada? LM is a US company, has huge ties to the defense industry, lots of political connections, and the US in general is more business-friendly than Canada. I find it very hard to believe LM would get out of Canada (be it government, commerce, industry ties, or simply geographical settings) anything they couldn't get in the US. Any ideas?

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[debest (471937)]

Cape Breton is one of the southernmost parts of Canada.

Southernmost part of Cape Breton is at approximately 45.5 degrees north latitute.

Southernmost part of Ontario is at approximately 42 degrees north latitude.

There are *lots* of places further south in Canada than Cape Breton!

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[Rorschach1 (174480)]

Say what? I've never heard of reduced gravity as being an advantage of launching near the equator. It's all about the Earth's rotation - you pick up about 1,000 mph relative to launching from the poles. That's 1,000 mph less delta V you need to get out of your propulsion system to reach orbit. That's why you'll never see a satellite orbiting east to west.

And it's not like the exact center of the Earth is the source of its gravity. All of the Earth's mass contributes to the gravity field at any given po

Cape Breton

[jetpack (22743)]

This adds a whole new dimension to the phrase "Stay where you're to, and I'll where you're at!"

Maybe that reference is a tad too regional for /. ;)

THE FOG!

[boxlight (928484)]

Cape Breton is one of the foggiest places in Canada (my dear old Newfoundland wins first place on that list).

Don't let the coastline fool you, this ain't Florida. The northern atlantic is a cold, icy, foggy place most of the year (remember Titanic). I certainly hope you don't need good weather to launch rockets.

boxlight

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[CashCarSTAR (548853)]

Not really. We have foggy mornings, but all-day fog is actually pretty rare here.

No, No, No.

[Fantastic Lad (198284)]

Please, no. I like Cape Breton the way it is. It's one of the last holdouts of Shire-like charm and backwardness, where the old, old grandmas of Gaelic descent will tell you that when the electric light came, all the women lost the second sight. If you put a frickin' launch pad in the middle of that, the coffin lid will have another dozen nails pounded home. No thanks. Leave lumbering, ultra-expensive space exploration and spy-satellite deployment to the Americans. We built that ridiculous arm already. That was cute. Like playing in one of those, "Drop the Egg Robot Olympics", but this retarded project is about asking Lockheed Martin to build toxic tinker-toys in the back yard where all the prettiest trees live. No thanks, Mordor.

Stupid Feds. Put my tax dollars into libraries, bike paths and food inspection agents who are trained to say "No" to hormone laden milk and GMO crops. Thank you.

-FL

'Silver Dart' plays homage to Canada's first plane

[aduthie (530266)]

The 'Silver Dart [wikipedia.org]' name plays homage to Canada's first plane.

Frankly, I think they'd do better with some sort of (much less expensive and land-intensive) tie-in to Bell's early high-speed hydroplaning watercraft, the HD-4 [wikipedia.org].

Whatever they do, it sounds like it will end up in the dictionary under "boondoggle [wikipedia.org]."

doesn't that hurt

[Surt (22457)]

I mean, using a slingshot or whatever to launch tourists into space. Ouch. I'd want a ship of some sort.

Great idea

[J05H (5625)]

That launch site is more convenient to the East Coast US than Spaceport New Mexico or Mojave. It is also well-placed for northern European clients. They should market a 2 week package, 3 days to unwind in Iceland, a week of training and fun in Cape Breton, your suborbital flight, and a couple days to relax afterwards.

It's pretty high inclination which could grow into accessing the rumored 61 degree orbit of the Bigelow complex.

latitude latitude latitude

[museumpeace (735109)]

Canaveral was a logical space port choice for two reasons. The built in kinetic energy of an object on the earths surface is due to its tangential velocity WRT the earths CG. That decreases as cos(latitude) when you move from equator to pole. As far south in the continental us as you can find a chunk of govt-owned eastern shore is ideal because at 28 north latitude, it has 88% of the KE of an object launched from equator, providing you pitch it into an eastward revolving orbit. That second reason? Since you have to tilt east, your boost trajectory goes safely over unpopulated ocean. Nova Scotia, at an average latitude of 45n only has 70% of the maximum possible KE...you need more fuel to orbit an equal weight of payload than they do in FL. NS only has the shore going for it. Did someone sell the Province the brooklyn bridge too?

From 15 December 2005

[mark99 (459508)]

That PDF is very old. Did anyone notice the date - 15 December 2005?

Wonder if they have made any progress since then :). Or at least get some better graphics together.

Cape Breton..

[CashCarSTAR (548853)]

Born and raised here. Yes. Really.

#1. It's not that foggy, in fact it's pretty nice. As well, our climate seems to be shifting closer to what they have in BC, but without the rain, at least for 10 months out of the year.

#2. Cape Breton is indeed beautiful. Tourists coming to go into space could see what they're leaving behind. I don't believe it's a unique beauty..the coast of California (especially Big Sur) feels very similar to me, but the combination is interesting.

#3. Unemployment isn't that high. It USED to be, after the natural resource industries collapsed (like they all do), but the population levels have evened out, and it's a pretty big destination for call centers these days. Why? #4.

#4. Friendly, intelligent (if not college educated) people. You could man such a spaceport with people from the area, not have to pay outlandish wages and still have a good experience for the tourists.

Welcome to Sunnyvale Trailer Park and Spaceport

[by Anonymous Coward]

LAHEY: "I'm Jim Lahey, Trailer Park-Spaceport Supervisor, and this is Randy, the Associate Trailer Park-Spaceport Supervisor. Have a drink while I show you around--hey, Randy! Get Ricky away from that rocket!"

RICKY: "F*** you, Lahey! I'm goin' to the Informational Smace Station!"

JULIAN: "D**m it, Rick, how are we gonna sell all this dope if you're in space?"

BUBBLES: "Julian! You promised I'd be the first one to go up in the rocket. What the f*** is Ricky doing with my space man suit?!?"

Re:$45M dollars?

[h-nu (311690)]

Don't know about the Monopoly money equivalent, but $45 M CDN is about $46.8 M USD right now.
Things have changed a little.

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[wcrowe (94389)]

Yet another post illustrating the need for a "Dumbass" moderation choice.

Re:$45M dollars?

[rs79 (71822)]

" how much is that in Canadian monopoly money? Ha ha, canucks, we love you miserable bastards, eh "

http://www.canada.com/vancouversun/story.html?id=292a762e-5b3e-4909-9ea3-ca664b774391&k=97109 [canada.com]

"Loonie soars to new 30-year high
Eric Beauchesne, CanWest News Service
Published: Saturday, May 26, 2007

OTTAWA -- The loonie soared to a new 30-year high of nearly 93 cents US Friday and toward what one Canadian bank is saying will be parity with the ailing U.S. greenback within two years.

The dollar, after hitting a high of 92.8 cents US, closed Friday at 92.64 cents US, its highest closing level since 1977."

"The strength of the Canadian dollar can no longer be laid solely to weakness of the greenback," Gignac said. "The loonie has appreciated against almost all currencies."

Now be nice or well hook the Chinese on Timbits and buy the US debt and turn your country into an amusement park. Eh.

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[Mad Dog Manley (93208)]

The dollar, after hitting a high of 92.8 cents US, closed Friday at 92.64 cents US, its highest closing level since 1977."

Umm, the Canadian dollar is now worth more than the American. $1.034 with a quick google search here [google.ca]. Guess monopoly money isn't so bad after all :-P

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[leoxx (992)]

You better not be impugning the dignity of our REAL [canadiantire.ca] currency.

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[Eightyford (893696)]

Why do they still call it the Federal government? I don't read an article and forget if it's totalitarian or democratic..

Federal: not municipal, not provincial

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[JK_the_Slacker (1175625)]

That doesn't stop Microsoft from selling Windows.

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[wcrowe (94389)]

Really? That's great! One would think they could make a fortune on t-shirt sales.

Well, I'd buy one.

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[everphilski (877346)]

Yeah, its too bad RpK couldn't keep up with the COTS program... they had problems with investor confidence, among other things. But I suppose it's a Good Thing that NASA picked two companies to win the $500M in COTS money ... not just RpK but also SpaceX. SpaceX is alive and kicking.