New Plastic to Cut CO2 Emissions and Purify Water

Roland Piquepaille writes "Researchers have lots of imagination. After developing plastic as solid as steel, other scientists from in Australia, Korea and in the U.S. have created a plastic which could cut CO2 emissions and purify water. Their new material mimics pores found in plants and is exceptionally efficient. As said one of the lead researchers, 'it can separate carbon dioxide from natural gas a few hundred times faster than current plastic membranes and its performance is four times better in terms of purity of the separated gas.' Now it remains to be seen if commercial companies are interested, either for water desalination or for natural gas processing plants."

Esculation of promises

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

"could cut" becomes "to cut". Probably previously in the chain there's a "might cut". No wonder we get so many hyped technologies that never deliver.

Re:Esculation of promises

[jfengel (409917)]

Just wait. This is Slashdot, where there's at least a vague hope of somebody understanding a bit of science. By the time this hits the regular papers it will be "cuts".

Which is why you'd hope for sanity

[EmbeddedJanitor (597831)]

No need for /. to overhype. Leave that to USA Today.

Re:

[tjstork (137384)]

Will it be cost-feasible to employ this plastic? In future as carbon trading opens up and becomes a market reality in more places, the answer will probably be yes

so, in other words, its not cost feasible now, but, we can raise taxes on CO2 emissions to make it that way.

Re:

[rtb61 (674572)]

It would be more accurate to say that they can make the material in highly complex limited run laboratory setting but they have not yet gone onto developing mass production techniques for creating the plastic film on a large scale.

The current Australian government has shifted CSIRO's focus from working in the interest of all Australian citizens to working in the intrests of corporate profits. Where as before they would immediately have gone on to develop mass production techniques due to the obvious benef

Re:

[gardyloo (512791)]

Gosh, and after that, maybe "esculation" will become "escalation". No promises, though.

Release misleading, but discovery is interesting

[asadodetira (664509)]

I agree the press release is misleading, however this method seems to provide a cheaper/faster way to separate gases, which is potentially beneficial for many industrial or laboratory processes. For the real details check the abstract in Science or the full article if available. http://www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/abstract/318/5848/254 [sciencemag.org]

Editorial Sensationalism

[Sentri (910293)]

Now now, the CSIRO are actually a respectable scientific body that research and develop countless products, dont believe me? Have a look at 802.11n (for example)

From the Article:
"This plastic will help solve problems of small molecule separation, whether related to clean coal technology, separating greenhouse gases, increasing the energy efficiency of water purification, or producing and delivering energy from hydrogen," Dr Anita Hill of CSIRO Materials Science and Engineering said.
"The ability of the new plastic to separate small molecules surpasses the limits of any conventional plastics."
"It can separate carbon dioxide from natural gas a few hundred times faster than current plastic membranes and its performance is four times better in terms of purity of the separated gas."

All wishy washyness about the abilities of the substance is the editorialising of slashdot and the writer of the article

(802.11n link with a fairly complete look at the picture: http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20070924-dark-australian-patent-cloud-looms-over-802-11n-spec.html [arstechnica.com] though it does kind of skirt around the fact that the CSIRO were ripped off in the past by the worldwide adoption clause and they are attempting to avoid the same again )

Re:

[instarx (615765)]

And please note that the membrane seperates CO2 from natural gas. Big deal. It isn't CO2 contamination in NG that's the problem, its the CO2 that's produced when the natural gas is burned. Now, does it take CO2 out of *exhaust* gases efficiently? If so it could be useful, but this smells of hype to me.

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[MyLongNickName (822545)]

No. The question is "Will it Blend"?

obligatory charlie brown

[Asshat_Nazi (946431)]

We'll just sit here in the pumpkin patch, and you can see the Great Pumpkin with your OWN EYES.

Re:

[schnikies79 (788746)]

offtopic or not, Charlie Brown should NEVER be modded down!

Re:

[damn_registrars (1103043)]

offtopic or not, Charlie Brown should NEVER be modded down!

That's just too far off topic for me to agree with you this time.

Though I will also say

In soviet Russia, Charlie Brown down moderates YOU

Artificial Kidney?

[by Anonymous Coward]

Can any medical types address the application of this material to artificial kidneys?

Re:

[Abeydoun (1096003)]

IICAMS (I am currently a medical student) Unless it has some other interesting characteristic not mentioned, the only potential use I see in dialysis/an artificial kidney would be to increase serum pH. But in someone with renal problems and is likely to be fairly physically inactive, the lungs already do a fairly decent job at regulating high pH by C02 removal. Nonetheless, the lungs' ability to regulate pH is more of a redundancy/tweaking technique to make the system more robust and as such they don't do

Obligatory 'Graduate' Quote

[porkrind (314254)]

"Plastics, son, plastics."

'Nah', say industry groups.

[RyanFenton (230700)]

"Nah", say industry groups.

"We've got enough money." They elaborate.

Honestly though - if this works out, these inherently filtering plastics would become the new... well, plastics sub-industry. Assuming the filters don't break down too rapidly, and wouldn't be inherently too limited in terms of materials/temperatures they can sort with, the variety of functions they could perform would mimic what we see in life all around us.

In addition the potential use in farming and the sciences would produce a direct

Re:

[P3NIS_CLEAVER (860022)]

There is nothing 'new' about this. There are commercial plastics used to desalinize water (reverse osmosis) and membranes used to concentrate oxygen in the gaseous state.

Re:

[RyanFenton (230700)]

If you're implying I lack complete understanding here - you're right. But all that I've seen of filtering plastics have been macroscopic plastic forms that either hold a solution in a shape that maximizes some process (evaporation, condensation), or are otherwise just the container for the real filtering process. The single-piece plastic with inherent filtering properties like a cell wall is what seems new to me.

Ryan Fenton

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[tcolberg (998885)]

The hope is that the may be the or one of the few steps necessary to making water desalination reasonable on a massive level. For example, the Western States of the US are in constant bickering over limited water rights. This and similar technologies may bring water desalination costs down to a point where such worries about fresh water are unnecessary.

I know a lot of people love to point to conservation, but cities like Los Angeles are already conserving a lot of water. Urban areas in California only

Re:

[deek (22697)]

This and similar technologies may bring water desalination costs down to a point where such worries about fresh water are unnecessary.

There _are_ other issues with desalination, other than cost. Like, what do you do with the salty brine by-product? Tip it back into the ocean? That could cause environmental problems.

Still, on a small scale, a cheap and efficient desalination product would be brilliant! I'd certainly buy a handheld version, when I go camping near the ocean.

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[SEE (7681)]

It's like sulfur. If you were to commercially mine coal just for the sulfur, you'd lose money competing with other sulfur sources. But scrubbing sulfur from coal smoke to comply with environmental rules extracts the sulfur anyway. The result has been a total collapse of the commercial sulfur-mining industry as power plants try to sell off the huge stockpiles of sulfur they're amassing.

Similarly, high-concentration brine is an excellent source of salt. Other sources of salt are currently economically com

Re:'Nah', say industry groups.

[deek (22697)]

Why would that cause problems, other than extremely locally ? You're not changing the total amount of salt in the sea, nor the total amount of water in the sea, so the end-result should be pretty close to zero.

Well, you _are_ changing the total amount of water in the sea, otherwise what is the use of desalination? But that is a nit-pick, because you are correct, if you consider the _entire_ sea, the net effect will be close to zero.

But I'm not talking about net effect. Concentrated brine will kill life on the seabed, and it will kill it for many kilometres around the pipes, depending on the topography, of course. It sounds like you don't understand how concentrated brine acts in seawater. If you think it'll naturally disperse quickly, you've got a big surprise waiting. If unagitated, brine will sink to the bottom of the sea, and will hang around for a long, long time. You'll actually have a lake of brine form, and it is visibly different to the normal seawater above it. All this can quite quickly disrupt or kill off the ecosystem in a much larger area than the brine itself takes up.

The net salt content of the whole sea will be close to the same as before, but now you've destroyed any life in the area. Now you know the dangers of thinking in terms of "net effect".

Re:

[BiggerIsBetter (682164)]

There is a catch, of course: Plastics are often derived from oil.

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[RyanFenton (230700)]

There is a catch, of course: Plastics are often derived from oil.

Certainly - but when you can better filter the Canadian oil shale...

Ryan Fenton

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[BiggerIsBetter (682164)]

Certainly - but when you can better filter the Canadian oil shale...

Maybe they can use plastics for that... ;-)

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[jollyreaper (513215)]

There is a catch, of course: Plastics are often derived from oil.

But we can create oil with those -- shit, I forget the name of them, you put turkey offal in one end and get hydrocarbons out the other. The point is, we can do that with people, to. I say we start with the Texas oil men.

Essentially a plastic version of a plant membrane

[bomanbot (980297)]

Well I read TFA and the concept behind that plastic is deceptively simple: It is a membrane consisting of hourglass-shaped pores, which seemingly is a very efficient shape for pores and is also used in plant cell membranes.

So in essence, this plastic is a plant membrane in plastic form, which is not a radically advanced concept, but a really clever one and if it works as advertised, kudos to the research teams.

Re:Essentially a plastic version of a plant membra

[asadodetira (664509)]

In my opinion the press release distorted somewhow the facts in an attempt to make it more understandable. According to the article in science they actually don't know for sure what the shape of the material. Based on absorption experiments they assume the pore structure is similar to that of activated carbon or zeolites, instead of the pore structure of usual polymer membranes.

What I want to know is ...

[DivineGod (1160361)]

... will the CO2 emission from producing the plastic be worth the amount saved by using it?

Copying Nature

[lloy0076 (624338)]

Well, those who innovate turn once again to Parental Nature for inspiration; not entirely surprising seeing Parental Nature either has:

• Millions of years of evolution to get it right; or
• A supremely Intelligent Designer

I just hope enough of Parental Nature is around the place for long enough before we lose the wealth of knowledge and technology which we can copy.

Re:

[jamesh (87723)]

Yes, but one day that intelligent designer is going to come down from the heavens, and instead of another 40 day and 40 night flood there is going to be a huge patent lawsuit on all the things we've copied from nature. No amount of rainbows is going to fix that mess!

what the fuck

[Jafafa Hots (580169)]

does "as solid as steel" mean?

They mean it's not a liquid, gas, or plasma

[bigtrike (904535)]

Perhaps they're referring to the state? Although if it's a plastic, it's probably an amorphous solid and lacks a crystalline structure like steel.

Re:

[ignavus (213578)]

Like "as solid as iron" plus a little bit "as solid as carbon", I guess.

Wrong link

[aztektum (170569)]

What's funny too is he linked to the wrong article. See [slashdot.org]

Lead scientists?

[youthoftoday (975074)]

Surely that's a highly toxic metal (at least its compounds are)? Does that cancel out the good this will do?

Re:

[ultracool (883965)]

Also, does the manufacturing process output more CO2 than the plastic would save?

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[springbox (853816)]

It's funny because those are two words that are spelled the same way. Like bass and bass.

purify things other than water

[OrangeTide (124937)]

I would like to see a plastic that can purify ethanol, instead of using the extremely inefficient method of boiling to distill the ethanol. All that boiling is one of the big reasons ethanol is impractical in the US. (we don't have the climate for sugarcane)

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[DerekLyons (302214)]

Huh? Even if we did have the climate for sugarcane - we'd still need to distill the result to purify it.

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[OrangeTide (124937)]

Yes but you get a lot more ethanol out of sugarcane than you do corn, so you can actually get more energy out of sugarcane than you put in it. basically you are actually benefiting from the sunlight the plants collected, but currently with corn you put in as much if not more energy trying to convert it. If you are operating your farms mainly near coal power plants you are just going through a round about way of converting coal into ethanol. (should just use coal gas then, it's cheaper)

I assumed all slashdot

Re:

[DerekLyons (302214)]

Yes but you get a lot more ethanol out of sugarcane than you do corn, so you can actually get more energy out of sugarcane than you put in it. basically you are actually benefiting from the sunlight the plants collected, but currently with corn you put in as much if not more energy trying to convert it. If you are operating your farms mainly near coal power plants you are just going through a round about way of converting coal into ethanol. (should just use coal gas then, it's cheaper)

You have no clue what

Then What?

[headhot (137860)]

What happens to the plastic membrane after it absorbs the CO2? Does it get recycled? thrown out? Burned?

Re:

[The Master Control P (655590)]

The membrane doesn't absorb anything. Once you finish snickering at the graphic that depicts individual molecules passing through smoothly-machined pores, you can see it's just a molecular-size seive; The linear CO2 molecules can present a small enough cross-section to go through if they line up axially; Tetrahedral methane and larger organic chains can't, so it efficiently sorts fluids based on molecule size.

It looks a lot like a nanopatterned plastic zeolite [wikipedia.org] actually.

Desalination is huge

[tjstork (137384)]

Any improvement in desalination is a welcome one. We need big desalination plants around the world to feasibly meet demands for fresh water.

That's nice and all, but...

[r_jensen11 (598210)]

It doesn't change the fact that we use plastics more often than we should. Melting plastic requires significantly more energy than melting glass. Recycling plastic also requires significantly more energy than recycling glass. Additionally, plastic can only be recycled a few times. Glass, on the other hand, has a much longer life.

How about we bring back the glass bottles? We're already losing the glass beer bottles to plastic ones. I say we reverse the tide, and go back to glass Coke bottles. And wouldn't it be nice if those milk jugs were actually re-used?

I'm not trying to say that we shouldn't find better plastics. All I'm saying is that I think, in addition to researching new plastics, we take time to look at the alternatives to plastics. Sometimes the old-fashioned methods work just as well, if not better, than new methods. You havn't seen a more efficient wheel invented in the last few thousand years, have you?

Wait... what??

[Khyber (864651)]

"Melting plastic requires significantly more energy than melting glass."

I hold in my hands a plastic bottle and a glass bottle, both used to have beer in them.

I take my butane lighter, spark it, and hold the flame to the bottom of the plastic. Within seconds, it's melting and burning. I do that to the glass bottle, and I'll burn thru that whole lighter's fuel supply (which is energy) before I even turn the glass red.

I'll say it probably takes more energy to melt glass rather than plastic.

Plastics in water supply

[JumperCable (673155)]

Great. The last thing we need are more plastics in our water supply http://www.webmd.com/food-recipes/features/mixing-plastic-food-urban-legend?page=3 [webmd.com]

Re:

[glittalogik (837604)]

Linux is already pure ;)