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Adding Capsaicin Improves Anesthetic Treatment
Posted by
samzenpus
on Wed Oct 03, 2007 11:16 PM
from the so-hot-it's-numb dept.
from the so-hot-it's-numb dept.
eldavojohn writes "It's no secret what capsaicin, the fiery molecule of peppers, does to cell walls. In fact, it's now being used to open cells up to local anesthetics. Combine it with a new drug that works only from the insides of cells and you have a great system for relieving pain. From the article, 'QX-314 is known to reduce the activity of pain-sensing neurons in the nervous system and theoretically heighten pain thresholds. But there's a catch: Researchers found that "it wouldn't work from outside a nerve cell but it would work if you could get it inside," says Bruce Bean, a professor of neurobiology at Harvard Medical School and co-author of the new study."
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Just a thought... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Interesting)
I'd guess people would only make that mistake once though.
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
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Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
Not at all. Why do you think Vicodin, Lortab, Percocet etc. contain acetaminophen? It's not for the pain relief - the opiates do a hell of a job for that. It's to give the drugs a maximum a person can take per time period before they deplete their glutathione and fry their liver.
Some opiate seekers understand this but OD on them anyways.
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
There has also been a lot of talk in putting opioid antagonists in Oxycontin (i.e. naloxone or naltrexone) to negate the oxycodone's effects when people chew / smash the pills, but there are also inherent problems with this approach (it can induce immediate drug withdrawal in those with dependency, e.g. me).
I would be very surprised if there was a good chemical solution to this problem that didn't come with a host of problems of its own.
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Informative)
In Australia, these things are called Capsicums (no, no-one calls them Capsica
Capsicums in the US are called, I believe, bell peppers.
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Informative)
It's a language problem.
Outside the US, capsicums and chillies aren't called "peppers". Interestingly though, the piperine which makes real pepper (the spice) taste hot works on the TRPV ion channel in the same way as capsaicum, so it might have a similar effect.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I have only heard capsicums them called capsicums in English speaking countries in the South Pacific. Capsicums are certainly called green/red/yellow peppers in the UK. Arguably, we (Australia) and NZ are the odd ones out.
Peppers I will agree with though.
Re: (Score:2)
Whoops, meant chillies are not called peppers outside of USA (North America?).
Re:Just a thought... (Score:5, Informative)
Nonsense. Don't confuse Australia with "outside the US". Australia is strange in reserving the word "pepper" for actual Piper nigrum. The UK, for example, is just like the US in that "pepper" is used to refer to the fruit of the Capsicum genus native to Mexico. The hot varieties are called "chillis" or "chilli peppers", and the mild varieties are known as "green peppers", "yellow peppers" or "red peppers" according to their colour; the generic term is "sweet peppers". Piper nigrum is known as "black pepper" or "white pepper" according to its colour.
There is never any ambiguity even when a colour is not mentioned, as the word is used as a mass noun to refer to Piper nigrum and a count noun to refer to Capsicum, i.e. "I like pepper" means one thing and "I like peppers" means another.
The recycling of the word "pepper" is not even peculiar to English: the word for Capsicum is many languages is just a minor variation on the word for Piper nigrum. Here are the respective words for pepper, sweet peppers, and chilli in some languages. French: poivre, poivron, piment/chili. Spanish: pimienta, pimiento, chile/ají. Italian: pepe, peperone, peperoncino.
Strangely, Australians will use the word "peppers" to refer to Capsicum if they are roasted. I believe this is under foreign influence. They do, however, stubbornly make sure that pepper spray (containing capsaicin) is always referred to as "capsicum spray".
Aussies tend to think that their usage is more exact than UK/US usage, in that they do not extend the old-world term "pepper" to cover the new-world fruit, but what they usually don't realise is that to botanists "Capsicum" includes the fiery fruits which Aussies always call "chillis", and never "capsicum".
One final bit of trivia: Australians virtually always mispronounce it "capsicun", although they are rarely aware of it.
— A Brit in Oz
Parent
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Informative)
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Ahh, but what if your dog is called peppers? Where does that leave you? Eh? EH??
Re: (Score:3)
Black Pepper [wikipedia.org] (or White Pepper) I guess, except in a China restaurant, where you would probably call it Sichuan Pepper [wikipedia.org], which again is a very different plant. And on some occasions you'll have Cayenne Pepper [wikipedia.org] , which in turn is made from a kind of chili, and thus is also called chili pepper.
Actually, pepper just means "that hot stuff on the table and/or food" and is not very helpful, when talking about plant species.
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
They're just going to take whatever other prescription opiate is most available at the time. And others will just find a way around capsaicin and any other measure devised by those who'd waste their talents devising ways of preventing other people from taking pills of their own volition.
It's a war that can't be won, nor does it deserve to be. It's wrong-headed and truly hateful towards freedom.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Interesting)
I can just see people crushing them up and putting them into a gel cap or something, would still defeat the time release mechanism if any in the tablet and opioid are generally plenty active enough orally (granted not as quick to take effect as insufflation but would still work).
When will those coming up with all these ideas lean that nothing is going to stop people who willingly choose to enjoy drugs, every method they have come up with has ultimately been defeated in time, from messing with the pharmace
One person's anesthetic... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Just a thought... (Score:4, Insightful)
A similar thought occurred to me when I read ths summary.
Although I took it a bit further into the apparent repetition of certain features in nature. For example, when I grew up we had jumping ants with a really nasty sting that always lived near a plant which was a perfect anditote to the sting, and stinging trees always lived near their antidote, etc.
I digress. The initial thought was that cloves make a good local anesthetic for dental problems, but they burn like hell when you first chew them until the anesthetic kicks in. I'm wondering whether the mechanism that creates the burning sensation is similar to the burning of chili and whether they too open cell walls? Anyone have any insight into this?
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Seriously though, I'm pretty sure there's something more too it. Probably something that would warrant reading the article. Just a guess.
Cell walls? (Score:5, Informative)
Mammalian cells have no cell walls. Do they mean plasma membrane? This is basic biology, guys, please get your facts straight.
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Seriously, mod parent up.
Re:Cell walls? (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, I've studied cell biology and I have no idea what capscaicin does to cell walls (or even plasma membranes.) Come to think of it, chili pepper cells have walls, and capsaicin doesn't seem do anything to them. So maybe it is a secret after all.
Parent
Re:Cell walls? (Score:5, Informative)
And not all cells express the VR1 - it is mostly nerve cells responsible for transmitting signals for inflammatory and neuropathic pain and epithelial cells like the skin lining our mouths.
Unlucky for those who like to feel their mouth burn when eating a good chili con carne(like me), the receptor is also expressed in the cells of the anal region - hence the burning feeling in the butt, when going to crap 1-2 days after eating the hot dish...:)
Wiki link: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TRPV1 [wikipedia.org]
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Re:Cell walls? (Score:5, Informative)
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Terrible Write Up (Score:5, Informative)
1. QX-314 block pain neurons. It doesnt block other neurons for heat, pressure, ect.
2. QX-314 only works if you can get it inside the neuron cell itself.
3. Capsaicin opens a channel on only pain neurons that will let QX-314 through.
So, using Capsaicin and QX-314 together, you can block pain but no other senses.
Re:Terrible Write Up (Score:4, Insightful)
1. QX-314 blocks all neurons.
2. QX-314 only works if you can get it inside the neuron cell itself.
3. Capsaicin opens a channel on only pain neurons that will let QX-314 through.
Parent
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
Re: (Score:2)
Overall, this new capsaicin/lidocaine EthBr mixture could be good news for the guys that enjoy disco dancing, archery, rape, and table tennis.
just turn on primetime (Score:4, Funny)
Ah, yes, much like watching American Idol.
There's a much easier way to get this effect... (Score:3, Funny)
Icy Hot-n-blazin' sauce (Score:4, Funny)
"Why yes, I will have my buffalo wings in the Icy Hot-n-blazin' sauce please!"
Re: (Score:2)
It already exists.
Visit Alice Cooper's Town [alicecooperstown.com] in Phoenix, AZ [google.com] if you ever get the chance. They serve Wings of Mass Destruction, the hottest wings I've ever eaten (and I love HOT wings). An order is a dozen wings. The first one makes your mouth and throat burn, the second one makes you want to die. If you make it that far, you're in the clear. At this point, your taste buds are so thrashed that you won't taste your meal. That's a pity, because their 1/2 pound Pepper Jack Cheeseburger is awesome. I only tasted
Re: (Score:2)
More than just that... (Score:5, Interesting)
It helps metabolize fat, helps with prostrate issues and a bunch of other things as well...
It can be taken in pill form (for those who dont like eating red hot chili peppers) which is good considering some of its benefits require moderate to large doses.
When combined with other spices such as garlic and cinnamon, the results in numerous areas are quite good, and quite nice... (adding to the list above better sugar absorption, insulin creation, appetite suppression, thermogenic fat burning without lean muscle mass loss, pain relief, sinusitus relief and a LOT more)
Interestingly none of this is news... it's ALL ancient news - that the pharmaceutical companie$ dont want people to know... a nice spicy/sweet bowl of chili (made with just a tiny pinch of cinnamon, a bunch of chili powder, and some garlic) each day (or substitute with a different food that those ingredients can be put in from a steak sauce to you name it) and you've eliminated billions of dollars in income for related chemically created products from the pharm companies - and you have also eliminated the side effects.
Re:More than just that... (Score:4, Interesting)
Excluding my closet addition to hot wings, I've been enjoying the benefits of capsicum for a few years now. I make a tincture of capsicum very similar to this one, listed in the 1918 USP Dispensary [henriettesherbal.com].
I use 15 fresh habanero peppers and 1 quart of the cheapest 90+ proof vodka I can find. Put them in a mason jar, seal TIGHTLY, and let sit for 4-6 months. Pour off the liquid and discard the peppers (or eat them, I guess, if you're insane). Store the tincture in the freezer. It should remain liquid even at 0 degrees or below due to the alcohol. That is why I use 90+ proof. Administer 1 ounce every few days. You HAVE to shoot it. The vodka should be super cold when you drink it, so the burn from the capsicum is minimized by the temperature and the quick drinking. I always feel a warm heat in my gut after a shot, as the capsicum gets absorbed.
Don't use this tincture daily or more often, as it can cause serious GI irritation in quantity. Believe me, you do NOT want to vomit the stuff. Just imagine shoving a peeled habanero into your nose/sinuses for an idea of the pleasure. Also, keep away from eyes.
This is cheaper than buying capsaicin tablets, and more fun, too! Challenge your buddies to a (single) shot of habanero sometime...Enjoy!
Parent
Re: (Score:2)
Those folks from India are getting it right again.
Why not just make and eat lots of delicious curry? Alcohol is fun, but it is also a poison. They did not appreciate this fact so much back in 1918.
Re: (Score:3, Informative)
I'll let the debate a
Re: (Score:2)
The "fun" I mentioned in the GP post was simply the wholesome pleasure of making a homemade natural "supplement". I was not talking about the "fun" that a few frat boys might try to have with some new crazy kind of homemade Absolut Peppar [absolut.com].
Re: (Score:2)
Irritating ??? (Score:2)
Irritating... If you have ever had the pleasure to demo The Source [sammcgees.com] at 7.1 MScovilles "irritating" is not the adjective you first reach for.
I have a friend who prides himself on this ability to handle heat and pain sample a bit too much one time. He became very quite but controlled although you could see his face turn red. He abruptly got up a
Re: (Score:3, Funny)
I saw that one! Then Homer met a talking wolf...
Re: (Score:2)
The worst part was not getting any water for about half an hour. Even after the heat fades the taste is awful.
something similar (Score:3, Interesting)
Ok (Score:5, Funny)
Capsaicin is used in arthritis creams (Score:3, Informative)
Sensations of affective (dull) pain and heat are transferred along the same nerves, which is part of the reason why this chemical can help modulate signals there.
And Don't Forget... (Score:4, Funny)
Re-inventing the wheel ? (Score:3, Informative)
Re: (Score:2)