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New Mars Discoveries

Posted by samzenpus on Wed Dec 13, 2006 06:34 PM
from the the-land-beneath-the-land dept.
Mars Space Science
sighted writes "The fleet of five active spacecraft examining Mars (in addition to the recently-missing Mars Global Surveyor) have been working overtime. On the heels of last week's finding of possible flows of liquid water, the ESA has announced that an entire hidden landscape exists just beneath the surface of the Red Planet, and NASA has released some really amazing images of layered topography that will yield many clues to the history of this strange world."
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  • I won't believe it until confirmed (Score:4, Funny)

    by LiquidCoooled (634315) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:35PM (#17230604) Homepage Journal
    K'Breel, Speaker for the Council must give his judgement upon this matter.

  • I bet it's caramel. (Score:4, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:39PM (#17230652)
    Mmmmm...

  • Awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kiba Ruby (1037440) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:44PM (#17230688) Homepage
    All the more reasons to spend money on NASA.

    We need to spend money on NASA. NASA's pioneering work in the space race give us advances in technology. The exploration of Mars should be taken seriously to the extent of the level of Iraq war spending.

    NASA is a legendary organization during the space race. We need to make NASA a legendary level government organization again.

    We have very good reason to go to Mars. Discovering lifeform on another planet is very improtant. Even if it is bacteria life, it will be a still very important step to answering mankind's question "Are we alone?". Even if we don't discover life, we will advance the technological level of mankind by doing so.

    • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

      by PygmySurfer (442860)
      The "space race" ended about thirty years ago.

      • Re: (Score:2, Insightful)

        by Anonymous Coward
        Really? Who won?

          • Re:Awesome! (Score:4, Insightful)

            by Mixel (723232) on Thursday December 14 2006, @12:55AM (#17233140) Homepage
            I thought that was the moon race; Russians won the Space race...

          • Re:Awesome! (Score:5, Insightful)

            by Tim C (15259) on Thursday December 14 2006, @03:04AM (#17233602)
            How convenient that the country that first got to the Moon also got to define that as the finishing post. Russia put the first satellite, the first living creature, the first man and the first woman in space, and I think it was a Russian cosmonaut that performed the first EVA, although I could be wrong on that one (and don't have time to google it). They were also the first to put an object on the Moon.

            I don't mean to belittle NASA's achievements, but to simply say "The US won the space race" is disingenuous.
            • >I don't mean to belittle NASA's achievements, but to simply
              >say "The US won the space race" is disingenuous.

              Well, come on now. We did it with a free society and a decent
              respect for life. And you have to admit, our stuff worked better
              (at least back then ...).

              The Soviets built freakin Titanium submarines too. Could go
              deeper (reportedly) than any of ours. That's more of a testament
              to a completely government-owned economy that didn't have to worry
              about cost and democratic politics than to fine enginee

              • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

                by Rei (128717)
                No, I don't have to admit that, because it's not a generalizable statement. Early US rocketry attempts were one disaster after another, while the Soviets got success after success. It wasn't until the Soviets bungled the heck out of the N1 rocket while the US was redoubling its efforts that the US can claim a clear victory on the "stuff working well" front.

                The Soviets had to worry about cost just as much as the Americans did. Just because it was a planned economy doesn't mean that you have an unlimited l
      • No, you're thinking of the Moon Race.

        The Space Race is the race to get self-sustaining human habitations (whether something akin to L5 colonies, terraformed planets or moons, or whatever) in space before civilization collapses down here (from either internal or external forces) to the point where we'll never be able to try it again.

        Nobody has won it. Currently we're not even close, and we may even be losing ground.

        • The universe is over 13 billion light years wide. The milky way is but one galaxy among countless others.
        • The galaxy is only 100,000 light years wide, and has existed for billions of years. We've only been listening for 100 years, but where are they?

          If we've really been listening for 100 years (we haven't -- unintentionally broadcasting that long maybe, but only listening for about 40) then the size of the galaxy is irrelevant, we've only "listened to" a sphere 200 light years in diameter, 0.2% the size of the galaxy (actually, 80 ly and 0.08% at best, in reality much less).

          Start worrying if we haven't heard fr

  • Odd pictures... (Score:5, Funny)

    by creimer (824291) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:45PM (#17230704) Homepage
    Didn't one of those new pictures show a space marine waving a soul cube on the surface?
  • ...be the first to mention the idea of space creatures living under the surface of Mars. We need to dump money into NASA and send some people out there to hail them.
    • ..be the first to mention the idea of space creatures living under the surface of Mars.

      Space creatures or Martian creatures. Pick one.

      • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

        by Jeremi (14640)
        Space creatures or Martian creatures. Pick one.


        And just where do you think Mars is located? ;^)

        • And just where do you think Mars is located? ;^)

          Pretty much the same place Earth is located, give or take a few million miles.

          I've always wanted to call myself a "space creature"!

  • Surprising! (Score:5, Funny)

    by Klowner (145731) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @06:50PM (#17230744) Homepage
    Hidden underground tunnels on mars eh? We need chainsaws, posthaste!

    And the "hidden tunnel" link in the article didn't point to doom 3 screenshots, slashdot impresses yet again.

  • White dolphins discovered in Hellas Basin! (Score:5, Funny)

    by StefanJ (88986) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @07:04PM (#17230860) Homepage Journal
    No. Not really. They're gone forever, starved to death and poisoned by pollution.

    But maybe someday after Mars is terraformed* we'll have genetically engineered recreations that have the manufacturer's logo blazed on their flanks who swim along boats and squeak helpful shopping tips at the tourists.

    Stefan

    * By Halliburton, so bring a respirator.
    • I laughed at first when I read that then I wanted to cry a second later when I realized how very likely that exact scenario is.

      When we do begin to explore and colonize Mars we need to keep the profiteering parasitical corporations out of it.

      Please god, let us have a world without greed and advertising.
      • "When we do begin to explore and colonize Mars we need to keep the profiteering parasitical corporations out of it."
        Obviously, because Governments can do it SO MUCH better!
        Waitaminnit....

        • Re:White dolphins discovered in Hellas Basin! (Score:4, Insightful)

          by Rei (128717) on Thursday December 14 2006, @01:42PM (#17241098) Homepage
          You do realize that it's corporations (Boeing, Lockheed, Orbital, etc) who do the bulk of spacecraft design, development, and operation in the US, right? And, for most rockets (obvious exception, the shuttle, which really should have been treated as a research platform, not a workhorse), these corporations have the normal profit motive, as they bear operating costs and compete for launch constracts. Often only the design is subsidized. Sometimes, as in the case of the Pegasus, even the design isn't subsidized.

          It's funny, people viewing corporations as the answer to high launch costs, when it's corporations that currently run the show.

          If what people actually mean is "smaller startups", they should read about the staggering non-success smaller startups have historically had with rocketry.

          That doesn't mean that the business world won't give us "the way forward". SeaLaunch hasn't done half-bad, and I keep an eager eye toward the progress of SpaceX's Falcon. But this isn't "something new". It's just the latest iteration of a long, ongoing process.

  • Most of this isn't new... (Score:5, Informative)

    by CorSci81 (1007499) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @07:05PM (#17230886) Journal
    The idea that the northern hemisphere craters were simply buried is actually a fairly old idea, even though the article makes this sound like a major breakthrough. We've had some radar images suggesting this for some time, I guess it's just now they're starting to get some press. The layered deposits are also well documented, but I do have to admit those are the prettiest pictures I've ever seen of them.

  • just think (Score:5, Insightful)

    by netsfr (839855) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @07:17PM (#17230974)
    how mind blowing it would have been if the sub-surface radar showed roads or infrastructure of a previous existance... It would have turned the way funding is for space all around, as well as change text books all over the world.

    Really impressive technology being used here. Kudos to those who make it happen.
    • how mind blowing it would have been if the sub-surface radar showed roads or infrastructure of a previous existance... It would have turned the way funding is for space all around, as well as change text books all over the world.

      I believe it's canals you're thinking of. And cool, gazing intelligence that travels in lighting bolts, etc. But that would still be good for funding!
    • Fundind is one thing, but that would probably mean that 99% of that funding increase would be used to fill the next martian missions with thermonuclear warheads. "it's the only way to be sure", as they said.

    • Re: (Score:2, Interesting)

      by dosle (794546)
      I'm curious what this type of imagery would return on say... ancient structures partially buried on earth for example.
  • Want me some Red Princess [libertymeadows.com] ah do! (mild NSFW)
    • Sir, as a fine Southern gentleman, I take affront to your sullying the good name of Dejah Thoris and all her royal kin in such a way as to link to that. I have half a mind to draw my sword and strike you down, but my gentlemanly manners require that I at least give you a chance to defend yourself. Prepare.

      J.C.

  • "working overtime?" gimme a break. spacecraft and robotic devices and test instruments do not have a workday, and are not limited by human weaknesses like the need for sleep, food, and bowel movements. if they work "beyond their expected life", that's a testament to good engineering. but please don't grant these manufactured goods human qualities.
    • "...if they work "beyond their expected life", that's a testament to good engineering. but please don't grant these manufactured goods human qualities."

      Why?
    • The rovers don't operate that autonomously. They constantly need to be given instructions from the ground crew, which could be considered to be working overtime.

    • Re:overtime pay for robot workers? (Score:4, Insightful)

      by Cherita Chen (936355) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @09:51PM (#17232194) Homepage
      "spacecraft and robotic devices and test instruments do not have a workday, and are not limited by human weaknesses like the need for sleep, food, and bowel movements."

      Not quite true. They need to eat, sleep and shit - just not in the "biological" fashion that we carbon based life-forms do.

      It is well known that;
      A.) The Mars rovers are often limited in the amount of work they can perform due to light availability (food).
      B.) The rovers must also transmit data back to the earth (shit).
      C.) When power is limited due to lack of light, they must cease all science operations (sleep).

      I would say that both of these rovers do in fact have a workday, and that it is much harder than most of the folks here on Earth would care to imagine...

      • How does transmission of data equate to taking a dump? Unless you use Morse code to talk to people in adjacent toilet cubicles.
  • Everyone knows Martian tunnels lead to releasing the trapped oxygen there. Didn't you see Total Recall?

  • Interesting discovery... (Score:3, Interesting)

    by skelly33 (891182) on Thursday December 14 2006, @01:24AM (#17233228)
    Neat - It makes me wonder how it could have been covered up so well. Letting my imagination run wild... what if Olympus Mons let loose a cataclysmic eruption so powerful that it:

    1) put enough sediment into the atmosphere to cover the entire surface,
    2) put larger rocks into orbit which eventually decayed and came back down to form the rock-strewn surface we are accustomed to seeing, possibly forming some of the ounger crater impact sites, and
    3) blocked out sunlight, killing off any shred of life on the planet at the time of the event

    "How" this could come to pass is the first thing that pops into my mind - no speculation in the article though which I always enjoy hearing from NASA.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by Viol8 (599362)
      1 and 3 are possible but I suspect 2 is unlikely , since to shoot out a rock large enough to cause the craters of the size discussed here would not only required far more energy than any volcano could ever produce but if somehow it did it would almost certainly completely destroy the volcano in the process. Its one thing to fire off rocks a few tens of metres in diameter , quite another to fire off mile wide lumps at sub orbital speeds.
  • Mars has "dirtosphere"?

    Now, there's where all the action may take place: on the rock bottom, under the ocean of dust.
    What's next: we'll dig out live macroscopic, big, crawling and wiggling animals that live in the Martian soil near geo...thermal heat sources?

    We need sensitive geo...phones sent up there ASAP to detect if there is any characteristic sounds of moving.

    OK, I need a help here: when word has prefix "geo", should it be substituted if it is applied to other planets?

  • Theres a good article in Sci Am this month (Score:3, Insightful)

    by Viol8 (599362) on Thursday December 14 2006, @04:55AM (#17234078)
    Scientific American is running an article about how it now looks almost certain that there were large standing bodies of water on Mars in its early history. However it goes on to say that this probably only lasted for a billion years or so before the water froze/evaporated and mars slowly turned into the dusty desert we know today.

    My own belief is that Mars slowly lost its atmosphere due to its low gravity and poor magnetic field and as the air pressure went down it was easier and easier for water to evaporate until at some point the pressure got to the point where the boiling point of water had dropped to below the ambient temperature of the planet and that was the end of the lakes/seas if there were any still around by then. Once in the atmosphere the water was dissociated into hydrogen and oxygen, the H2 escaped and the O2 reacted with whatever was around producing the rusty landscape we see today.

  • With Apologies to Wells (Score:3, Interesting)

    by Digital Vomit (891734) on Thursday December 14 2006, @06:30AM (#17234392) Homepage Journal
    No one would have believed in the last years of the twentieth century that this world was being watched keenly and closely by intelligences greater than man's and yet as mortal as his own; that as men busied themselves about their various concerns they were scrutinised and studied, perhaps almost as narrowly as a man with a microscope might scrutinise the transient creatures that swarm and multiply in a drop of water. With infinite complacency men went to and fro over this globe about their little affairs, serene in their assurance of their empire over matter. It is possible that the infusoria under the microscope do the same. No one gave a thought to the older worlds of space as sources of martian danger, or thought of them only to dismiss the idea of life upon them as impossible or improbable. It is curious to recall some of the mental habits of those departed days. At most martian men fancied there might be other men upon Earth, perhaps inferior to themselves and ready to welcome a missionary enterprise. Yet across the gulf of space, minds that are to our minds as ours are to those of the beasts that perish, intellects vast and cool and unsympathetic, regarded this planet with envious eyes, and slowly and surely drew their plans against us.

    • Re:I didn't know satellites had a schedual (Score:4, Informative)

      by sighted (851500) on Wednesday December 13 2006, @07:11PM (#17230918) Homepage
      I tossed off that phrase maybe a little too casually as a figure of speech, but certainly the people on the project have been working overtime. Some background here [uanews.org].

    • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

      by camperdave (969942)
      Lots of satellites and probes work overtime. Consider Spirit and Opportunity. They are still running and returning data, even though they are around 950 sols past their expected operational lifetime. The Mars Global Surveyor was supposed to finish it's mission in 2001. Nasa extended the mission four times since then.

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