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Testosterone Tumbling in American Males

Posted by CmdrTaco on Sun Oct 29, 2006 12:17 PM
from the zomg-where-are-my-lead-pants dept.
United States Science
An anonymous reader writes "Yahoo is running a story about a study that concludes that testosterone levels are falling across all age groups among American men. It says 'The testosterone-fueled American male may be losing his punch'" I leave it to you all to draw your conclusions about this, but I still wonder what my hours of laptop-fu does to me.
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  • because... (Score:5, Funny)

    by dexomn (147950) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:19PM (#16632974)
    It's all being sold in shops in WoW.

      • Another real reason (Score:3, Informative)

        by Anonymous Coward

        "... the brain's response to all the negative pressures of using testosterone. I mean the aggressive male is in decline."

        The other possibility is the males' levels of testosterone are dropping because they are biologically less able to produce it than they were in the 1980s. The Testosterone level in a male goes in parallel to his level of zinc intake. If you are a male who is zinc deficient, you are going to lack testosterone too. A decline of zinc in the American food supply or a changing American diet wh

  • I for one.... (Score:5, Funny)

    by tloh (451585) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:21PM (#16633004)
    ...welcome our new metro-sexual overlords?

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by tloh (451585)
      On a less lame note, does this mean young geeks are dealing with less of the aggressive bully types? And on a slightly more serious note still, I wonder if any study has been done on the role of male sex hormones in the sociobology of humans. It is a generally acknowledge (though AFAIK not yet understood) fact that women who live in the same dwelling eventually develop synchronized menstrual periods. But with regard to males, I can only think of examples in the animal kingdom where territorial males woul

  • At this point (Score:5, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:23PM (#16633026)
    The testosterone-fueled American male may be losing his punch.

    At this point, I think it's really more of a "forceful slap" than anything.

  • lack of excercise and obesity (Score:4, Interesting)

    by iggymanz (596061) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:26PM (#16633054)
    testosterone drops in a body that doesn't excercise (true for male and for the much smaller amount the female has), it drops in an obese body and moreover body fat produces a female-hormone like steroid
      • My steaks are wrapped in plastic, but I eat them raw, so it's ok right?

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by iggymanz (596061)
        yup, google estrogen and "nonyphenol" or "bisphenol A" (there's others too) heating in microwave ovens likely increases the dosages, never thought of that until now. crap.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Cherita Chen (936355)
        "...and it's like getting a little dose of estrogen."

        Here's the obligatory link [scienceagogo.com] to more info on the estrogen-plastic issue.

        In light of this revelation, it is important to note that according to research, the amount of estrogen one would ingest from plastic doesn't compare to the rate of testosterone aromatization in a young healthy male (let alone a steroid laden jock). The bottom line is that a body needs both estrogen and testosterone (though amounts do differ between M&F).

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by Mr. Slippery (47854)

        Common plastics used to package convenience foods have estrogenic side-effects.

        Indeed, polycarbonate - which is in pretty much everything - is made from a chemical originally used as a synthetic estrogen, bisphenol A [wikipedia.org]. Bisphenol A will leech from polycarbonate food or drink containers, especially ones cleaned with very hot water, or with bleach. (Some plastics are safer: #1 PETE, #2 HDPE are fairly safe from leaching and are easy to recycle, #4 LDPE and #5 PP are also said to be safe for food storage.)

      • Re:lack of excercise and obesity AND PLASTICS (Score:4, Funny)

        by SnowZero (92219) on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:30PM (#16633778)
        Clearly we need to start adding testosterone to plastic. Then we can have male and female versions of soda bottles. The companies can charge extra for the "man's drink bottle" to offset the extra expense, as men won't want to be caught with the "women's drink bottle"[1]. I think I had better patent this...

        [1] this logic might not work on male Mac users.

  • The only good news here... (Score:3, Funny)

    by Lank (19922) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:27PM (#16633062)
    Is that I guess I'm not alone! Now I can point to this study and tell my girl, "See? It's happening to all the guys my age -- you're not cool unless you have a reduced libido!"

  • Testicular cancer (Score:5, Informative)

    by Skiron (735617) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:28PM (#16633068) Homepage
    Having being diagnosed, and having surgery and chemotherapy for this (like Lance Armstrong et al), there is a worrying trend. There is no known cause of this cancer scientifically proved, but after getting this cancer, and speaking 'hear say' to consultants, doctors. etc. one theory is that estrogen (oestrogen), the female hormone, is being dumped into the environment from products (baby products, nappies etc.). This chemical doesn't break down in nature - so drinking water, cows milk, fish, meat... all contain this bumped chemical up that would not otherwise be there. Too see how bad it is, there are even scientific reports of fish changing sex in estrogen rich rivers - do a google on this. This is not a subject to laugh at.

  • Don't worry (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Kohath (38547) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:29PM (#16633088)
    Health-related news is almost always wrong. It'll get contradicted in another study next year.

    Remember when everyone got that bird flu? (I was coughing up feathers for weeks.)

  • Cure ... (Score:4, Informative)

    by foobsr (693224) * on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:34PM (#16633160) Homepage Journal
    As a web-page of NYUMC [nyu.edu] suggests, Tai Chi may be of help.

    Quote: Enhanced Endocrine and Immune System
    One study found that tai chi was associated with increased blood levels of a number of hormones, including thyroid hormone, testosterone, and estradiol. Another study found that tai chi was associated with an increased number of T cells (cells involved in the immune response).

    CC.

  • Blame MTV! (Score:3, Funny)

    by Mike Savior (802573) <mercury4063@gma i l . c om> on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:48PM (#16633308)
    It's all that crappy emo music that's hitting it big. The guys are becoming even more fragile than us nerds! (And scoring twice the women, still)

  • Simple evolution (Score:4, Interesting)

    by iamacat (583406) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:50PM (#16633330)
    If you fight you are put in jail, if you ask someone out at work you are fired and sued, if you are perceived to be an insensitive clod who wants to sit in a bar rather than wash dishes, you are unlikely to get married or have an offspring - thanks also to birth control/abortion. The evolution is selecting against "manly men". Maybe it's time for the society to wake up and move away from extremes.

    • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

      by bmajik (96670)

      Maybe it's time for the society to wake up and move away from extremes.

      I think that's exactly what's happening. I think that over the last 1000 years Western Society has moved away from the model of "women as property of the most violent male" and "rape to procreate", and that these extremes are best left behind.

      I don't think that's what you meant.

      The selection criteria of today are clearly different than they were in the recent past. Women have some basic right-of-refusal and thus the selectivity criteri

  • Pussification of the Western Male (Score:5, Insightful)

    by Yonder Way (603108) on Sunday October 29 2006, @12:50PM (#16633334) Homepage
    Kim du Toit explained this phenomenon some time ago in this essay [theothersideofkim.com]. I think he hit it right on the head.

    • Re:Pussification of the Western Male (Score:5, Insightful)

      by moe.ron (953702) on Sunday October 29 2006, @02:56PM (#16634586)
      Well this is getting off topic I think, but...

      For a man's man, Kim sure feels the need to censor himself quite a ####### lot. What the #### is up with that? Either find an eloquent way to say what you're trying to say, or just fucking say it, but having all these ####'s in place of fucks and shits makes him look like an uneducated pussy.

      Pardon my ####'s, but what the fuck is this:
      When women got the vote, it was inevitable that government was going to become more powerful, more intrusive, and more "protective" (ie. more coddling), because women are hard-wired to treasure security more than uncertainty and danger.
      I am supposed to believe that the women voters in this country are to blame for our heavy handed, civil rights trampling, fear mongering, war-hawking government? That all the men voted to live dangerously and with uncertainty, and the women were all like, "No, we need a large, over powered, fascist government to protect us".

      Well that and this:
      Speaking of rap music, do you want to know why more White boys buy that crap than Black boys do? You know why rape is such a problem on college campuses? Why binge drinking is a problem among college freshmen? It's a reaction: a reaction against being pussified. And I understand it, completely. Young males are aggressive, they do fight amongst themselves, they are destructive, and all this does happen for a purpose.
      Is he seriously trying to rationalize rape and alcohol abuse by saying those actions are simply unavoidable, natural expressions of the human male? What about self-control, integrity, and discipline?

      Oh, and:
      Donald Rumsfeld ... He's a Real Man. No wonder the Euros hate and fear him ... We'd better get more like him, we'd better become more like him, because if we don't, men will become a footnote to history.
      Umm...what? I'm sorry but the argument that being assertive and aggressive is an appropriate replacement for being intelligent and diplomatic does not hold water with me. You can't use Rumsfeld as an example of what people should be like until you can prove that Rumsfeld isn't a complete idiot. People fear Rumsfeld because he is irrational and has the world's most powerful military at his disposal. So many people have died unnecessarily as the direct result of this man's actions and we're supposed to be more like him?

    • We DO need more Real Men. (Score:4, Insightful)

      by TerranFury (726743) on Sunday October 29 2006, @11:29PM (#16638415)

      But "real" isn't the swaggering jock: He is exactly like his counterpart the flamboyant "metrosexual" (how I detest that word -- but it communicates): He is affecting a style of behavior that is not truly his own. I have no respect for him.

      Do not be like Napolean, who fought wars to make up for his small stature. It takes the bigger man to show restraint. Master yourself before you seek to master others. Violence is weakness.

      Du Toit is correct that the TV-sitcom "man" is weak, hen-pecked, and impotant -- as are too many real life men. But this is not because they do not drink enough beer, and it is not because they do not watch enough football. It is because, chained by guaranteed sex to relationships they do not want, they do not have the strength to hold their principles above their libidos. Restraint is strength.

      Take a punch. Stand tall. Do not strike back, but speak clearly: "You will leave now."
      Meet a girl. She is drunk, and on top of you. Quietly say, "no." Put her to bed. Close the door behind you.

      Whence disappeared "to be a man?" Strength. Respect. Honor. Real men are not pigs. Real men are good men.

          • Re:Phasing out of the macho Western male (Score:4, Insightful)

            by CAIMLAS (41445) on Sunday October 29 2006, @06:05PM (#16636246) Homepage
            Ding ding ding!

            I was a door mat for quite a while, then somehow managed to edge into "nice guy" territory. Tired of not getting laid, I started acting like a prick, and started getting some action. Pig? You betcha. Then I realized I was being a pig, and started manning up, and I've not had any problems since. Granted, I've not been such a whore either.

  • Red Meat (Score:3, Funny)

    by AVryhof (142320) <avryhof@gawa[ ]om ['b.c' in gap]> on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:52PM (#16633982) Homepage
    It's because people keep bitching about how unhealthy red meat is.

    What happened to the days when a guy could fix his car in his garage, build something in the basement, then eat a nice big juicy steak with a potato for dinner, then go watch the news about a war?

    This war on terror isn't a real war, there's no good healthy warmongering in it...it's all about "protect the children" rather than my bombs are bigger and faster than yours.

    We need to stop stomping out countries on the verge of becoming competitive world powers. We need another cold war, where men can be paranoid until they're real men.

    We also need a new generation of muscle cars, and more lumber yards cropping up, these "home centers" make me want to puke.

    In the infamous words of George Carlin, later repeated by Denis Leary and others (which I will poorly misquote)... A man needs to sit home eating red meat and watching the war on TV!

    Real men drink Pabst blue Ribbon beer, and punch holes in the wall to prod their ego.... and thats what a real man is... Flesh, Blood, Muscle and ego!

    Now I'm off to play with my dollies.

  • nuisance (Score:3, Insightful)

    by bcrowell (177657) on Sunday October 29 2006, @02:31PM (#16634300) Homepage

    Having a high testosterone level is a hormonal nuisance, sort of like when women get cramps during their period, or hot flashes during menopause. I'm 40 now, but I still remember what it was like being 15-25. Thank God that's over with! It's no fun when the presence of a nubile female gives you an erection that hurts, and lasts as long as she's nearby. I have my own personal list of embarrassing things I did under the influence of testosterone, and I'm sure every other male past puberty has a similar list.

    As an individual, this whole thing is also a nonissue, because natural differences in hormone levels bewteen one man and the next are probably huge -- much bigger than the effect being claimed.

    What's really scary about this is not the effect it's having on adult males (and the rest of society), which may be positive. What's scary is:

    1. We don't know what's doing it.
    2. Whatever's doing it may have other, unknown, effects on us (men, women, and children).
    3. The development of a fetus is very sensitive to the presence of hormone-mimicking chemicals in the environment, which could be what this is. I can't imagine anything more sad than having a kid born with a serious birth defect -- it makes the teenage hormonal suffering seem pretty meaningless by comparison.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by pilgrim23 (716938)
      Let's see: the article says "Americans" One would presume this would be in comparisson to other countries?. Well, America is more a continent then a country. Comparing the USA to say Germany would give you somewhat weird results. Also, is there a breakdown by: ethnicity, other genetic factors, enviornmental or climate conditions, or Hat size? I could go on. "America" is a all inclusive non-homogenious term. The ONLY malady we all share in common is the IRS.

    • Diabetes (Score:3, Informative)

      by Stickerboy (61554)
      Obesity is linked to increased risk of diabetes, diabetes is associated with lower testosterone levels. The article has it wrong - low testosterone does not cause diabetes, it's the other way around. Hypogonadism is a well-known effect of diabetes.

      There's your link [wikipedia.org].
      • From the article, it sounds like this study only considered old men, and not males in general. Could it be that today's better health care disproportionately helps low-testosterone people? Again from the article:

        Testosterone is the primary male sex hormone and plays an important role in maintaining bone and muscle mass. Low testosterone levels have been linked to health problems, including lowered libido and diabetes.

        So maybe the average lower testerone just results from diabetes patients and others l

          • Re:Diabetes (Score:4, Interesting)

            by Thangodin (177516) <elentar.sympatico@ca> on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:35PM (#16633828) Homepage
            Michael Jackson may be a reference point. His voice never changed, he never developed secondary attributes, and his baby had to be fertilized artificially, so there was some medical intervention at work there. Plastic surgery was probably not the first elective surgery he went through. I suspect that this is the root of most of his psychological problems. That's why I tend to give the guy a pass for a lot of his weirdness--the decision would have been forced on him by his father.

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by malsdavis (542216) *
      The article suggests a link is likely (although they don't quote an exact study into such). I think though, the drop in testosterone is among the least of fat people's worries.

      I don't understand why people go on and on so much about diseases like Aids in Africa when there is a disease killing millions here in America also, the only difference being it is caused by lack of self-control rather than a virus. Yet so many people treat obesity like it's no big deal unlike other diseases. I can understand Walmart

    • Re:Any link to... (Score:5, Informative)

      by Frangible (881728) on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:11PM (#16633566)
      Quite probably, yes. Adipose cells make an enzyme called aromatase, which converts testosterone into estrogen for the fat cell's use. (estrogen actually makes fat more metabolically active, so it's not really a bad thing per se) This, however, has the effect of lowering free testosterone in the body as a whole. If you lose fat, your testosterone levels WILL increase.

      However, keep in mind humans are the only animal species that actually get overall, most of their testosterone from DHEA rather than free testosterone in the blood. In addition to stimulating androgen receptors directly, DHEA is also metabolized by local tissues into testosterone (and estrogen) as needed. So free testosterone is one part of the picture. Androgen receptor sensitivity and density also matter, but I'm uncertain as to what factors dynamically affect those in adults.

    • Re:Any link to... (Score:4, Funny)

      by DurendalMac (736637) on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:11PM (#16633568)
      No, more like the incessant pussification of the male race and the metrosexual trend. The government should mandate that those who have low testosterone for no good reason must watch movies like Commando until their testosterone level rises to acceptable levels.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by vadim_t (324782)
        What does testosterone have to do with the gender of the child? The gender is a result of chromosome combination. The woman contributes XX, and the man XY. Depending on whether your "X" or "Y" chromosome gets used, the resulting child will be male or female.

        Interestingly, spermatozoids carrying the "Y" swim faster, and can be told apart from the "Y" ones that way.
        • Yes, "Y" spermatozoids are faster, but "X" ones live longer. So, if by the time they're inside and no egg is there to be fertilized, chances are that "Y" ones will die, and "X" will win if an egg is released afterwards.

      • Re: (Score:3, Informative)

        by tverbeek (457094) *
        For the record, there's no data that suggests a correlation between testosterone levels and homosexuality. In fact, physicans once tried to "treat" homosexuality with testosterone injections, and the subjects just became more homosexually active.
        • What I've heard, testosterone is related to sexual drive. I know some mid-age women that have been treated with testosterone to cure their lack of interest in sex, and it works. Like the parent said before me, it has nothing to do with homosexuality. At all.

      • Re: (Score:3, Interesting)

        by eno2001 (527078)
        My theory on homosexuality is that it is a natural population control mechanism when an environment begins to exceed it's carrying capacity. I would suggest that is real study were done, you'd find less homosexuality in environments where there are plenty of resources and a small population. Contrary to that, I think you'd find abundant homosexuality in ares where resources are scarce and overpopulation is a problem. (Note: I'm not talking about "out" homosexuality, because cultural pressures are often

          • Re:Logical conclusion (Score:4, Informative)

            by JourneyExpertApe (906162) on Sunday October 29 2006, @03:31PM (#16634952)
            The terms were defined as such to resolve ambiguity back in the 19th century to better describe intersexed, homosexual, and transsexual people.

            Way to "revise" history. The usage of the word gender to describe someone's personality as opposed to their biological sex was invented in the middle of the 20th century. It is technical jargon used by social scientists and psychologists. I'm really tired of seeing people "corrected" when they use gender as a synonym for sex. When the the Merriam-Webster Dictionary [m-w.com] lists "sex" as a definition, it's good enough for me. Stop trying to impose what you were told in your Humanities electives on the rest of us.

    • Re:Science or Society (Score:5, Insightful)

      by owlnation (858981) on Sunday October 29 2006, @01:08PM (#16633548)
      Are you joking...?

      Saying please or thank you most certainly does make you a man. Not saying them, makes you a pig. Take for example your Army's much vaulted hero, John Wayne. As an archetype he is most decidedly rich in testosterone, most certainly a man's man, and most certainly a gentleman too. Can you imagine him not saying please or thank you, because I can't.

      If you are serious, and I'm not convinced you are, I think perhaps you have a little too much testosterone, and too little education (maybe you think book learnin is for girls too huh?). Being masculine and tough doesn't mean you need to behave like an animal, nor does it mean you need to go a-guntoting and a-killin and a-whuppin some good ol boys. You can be not only tough, strong and manly but also kind and compassionate at the same time.

      And I think your concept of economics may be flawed too. Just a guess, but you may find your employees work a little better when you treat them with courtesy, you may also find that if you continue to treat them rudely that one day they may just turn and sabotage your operation. Just a thought...

    • Re: (Score:3, Insightful)

      by WindBourne (631190)
      And yet it is people like Tilman, a democrat that went to Afghanastan, who was opposed to the current set of republicans. While nearly all congressional and white house republicans who avoided serving this country are the same ones that send us to war. All in all, you are full of crap.

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