Electrical Noise Causing Physiological Stress? 401
el johnno writes "The Globe and Mail is reporting on possible physiological problems caused by so-called 'dirty electricity.' Poor power quality caused by electrical feedback and harmonics from consumer electronics are cited as a possible cause of various 'physiological stress' problems. While previous research in this area looked for connections between EM fields and cancer, some research is now looking into possible connections to fatigue, headaches, depression, and other symptoms. From the article: 'If electricity were flowing in a constant way, most people's bodies would likely adapt, but with all the interference from modern devices, the resulting fields are too variable for people to get used to.'"
another reason to call in sick (Score:5, Funny)
Re:another reason to call in sick (Score:2)
Re:another reason to call in sick (Score:2)
Re:another reason to call in sick (Score:3, Interesting)
Bring back DC!! Oh, they are! [slashdot.org]
Voltages and frequencies (and the US is 120, not 1 (Score:3, Informative)
Europe used to be 220 except the UK which was 240, now they are all moving to 230 (which is bad news for the UK - as higher voltage is more efficient, and being exactly twice the US is more convienient).
Frequency is kept regulated within very narrow bands, variations can disrupt the grid (parts of the grid need to be in phase and on frequency with each other to be joined - else huge c
Ignorance and/or fraud (Score:2)
This is the fourth time in the past two years approximately that Slashdot editors have posted an article like this. Slashdot editors show that they didn't study in their science classes.
Those who did study know that anything that is above a temperature of absolute zero releases electromagnetic energy. It's everywhere, all the time, and was there before people began making radio waves.
Maybe the article is an early Apr
Re:Ignorance and/or fraud (Score:3, Funny)
Electricity (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Electricity (Score:5, Funny)
Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:5, Insightful)
No. The guy probably never existed in the first place. The company that sells $1,000 placebo black boxes probably does, though.
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:5, Informative)
If this was true anyone working in a UPS environment would be a sick nutter. Just take an oscilloscope and see the crap some "branded" dual conversion models spit out.
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:4, Funny)
Haven't met many sysadmins, have you?
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:2)
Not lately, no, at least not for the last 5 milliseconds...
Fair point though
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:3, Insightful)
To even report this show a total lack of creditabilty. "I just spent a thousand dollars on these things and I feel so much better".
Please check these references.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Double_blind [wikipedia.org]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Placebo_effect [wikipedia.org]
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:2)
Unless you are plugged into an iron lung or such like, then you probably wouldn't be owrried about the freezer at all.
Re:Electric fields cause fiscal irresponsibility (Score:2)
I knew it! (Score:5, Funny)
It's a plot by the Edison company to bring back DC power!
Luckily I'm wearing my AFDB.
Obligatory citing... (Score:2, Funny)
I first became aware of it, Mandrake, during the physical act of love...Yes, a profound sense of fatigue, a feeling of emptiness followed. Luckily I-I was able to interpret these feelings correctly. Loss of essence. I can assure you it has not recurred, Mandrake. Women, er, women sense my power, and they seek the life essence. I do not avoid women, Mandrake...but I do deny them my essence.
(Now compare this to: Mr. Byrne al
Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2, Interesting)
Before you laugh, I've had one job where there were two cell repeaters in the building plus an extensive wifi network. There were some rooms where my eyes would water if I entered them, and at the end of each day I'd sit in the car for 10 minutes to "detox". Didn't seem to bother anyone else.
They also
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:4, Informative)
Not least of which is the Sun; Earth's number one source of electromagnetic waves in every frequency. What's important here is that unlike solar radiation, which is largely random noise, man made EM radiation is generally ordered and harmonic. Overwhelmingly, most RF signals come from time harmonic sources.
Our brains and bodies are chaotic systems. Ordered signals are bad for them. Apparently epilepsy is a sudden bought of order in the brain. It's entirely possible that some people, or in deed all people to a degree, are sensitive to any resonances in their body with time harmonic signals.
Engineers sometimes scoff that EM radiation is at such a low level that it cannot harm anyone. But engineers very often make the mistake of not accounting for resonance [wikipedia.org]
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
What a fantastic coincidence that all of the frequencies we use in commercial applications happen to be the ones that "resonate" in some way.
Or maybe it's all in their heads.
Noone likes to be told that they've got a screw loose. But that
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
Yes I'm kidding, but I thought the brain liked some semblance of order, has a calming effect. Would it not be easier for the brain to cope with a contstant signal than one that is constantly changing? I'm suddenly aware of a high pitched whine that is likely coming from the monitors in this room (usually notice this whine from TVs), though usually the brain filters th
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
If you believe that, you must be an idiot. Engineers, or all kinds (electrical, mechanical, aeronautical), are acutely aware of the importance of resonance. Particularly asinine for you to make such a claim (presumably) in connection with electrical engineers, as radio receivers use resonance.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
Either way, its just as impossible to say this does not happen as it is to say it does. So people acting like this is so scientifically not-happening are on just as shaky ground.
There is really no reason to insist that none of this EMR is doing anything. We just don't know, and there seems to be no desire to find out based on the strong negatively worded opinions around here.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:5, Insightful)
This gives two possibilities:
1) Your symptoms are psychosomatic. Which doesn't mean they don't exist, but there's no physical link between EM radiation and your symptoms, so there's no physical solution possible.
2) You are an exception and genuinely *are* sensitive to EM radiation. In which case you should be contacting the various researchers into this, bcos you may be able to provide the evidence that so far is lacking. You can't guarantee that government would do anything about it, but you might get your symptoms recognised as a genuine medical condition.
I suggest you get your friends to help with experiments. A good initial test would be to have one of your friends turn his wireless network on or off when you come round, and keep notes of the state in a diary. When you come to the door, if you're sensitive then you should be able to notice the wireless network signal, so write down in your diary what you think its state is. Then you compare notes after a month or so. That'll give you some feedback about how your symptoms relate to things. Obviously this might be prone to interference from PCs or TVs on at the same time, but it's a start.
I'm not going to prejudge your specific case. All I can offer is the existing evidence, which says that so far no-one's been found who can do this. As a natural sceptic, I'd personally go with the evidence until someone shows otherwise, but we've got to give people every opportunity to disprove the existing evidence, otherwise it becomes faith-based not evidence-based, and we all know where that bullshit lands you.
Grab.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
By knowing whether it's turned on or not, it's likely they'll subconsciously send this information to the subject. This might take the form of repeated questions about how he's feeling when it's turned on, and disinterest when it's off. It wouldn't be hard to pick up on these cues, even without trying.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
Apart from that, I agree with you. As another respondent said, that's why double-blind testing was invented.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
What's more likely, in my opinion, is that some people genuinely do have a negative reaction to EM when exposed for long periods of time. Once they figure this out, or believe it, then they get the additional psychosomatic effect of having a headache whenever they *think* there's EM around
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
Re:3) The effects take a long time to show (Score:2)
Allow me to introduce you to autoregressive analysis. If you have enough data you can most certainly pick out the lags in the correlations between the variables.
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
Re:Same with WiFi and cell phones (Score:2)
*sigh* You just missed your chance of selling a used Geiger counter (with a hefty profit).
Call this science? (Score:5, Insightful)
Call this science? what a load of bollocks. This is what you get when you need to print a newspaper every day.
Re:Call this science? (Score:2)
Re:Call this science? (Score:2)
EM stress - simpler explanation (Score:2)
See http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/main.jhtml?xml=/n e ws/2006/03/23/nsick23.xml&sSheet=/news/2006/03/23/ ixhome.html [telegraph.co.uk] for details.
I'd say this is reasonably obvious, and also a similar explanation probably lies behind the original post. EM radiation causing stress, or work (in workplace full of electrical devices) causing stress - which do you thi
Re:EM stress - simpler explanation (Score:2)
Fortunately I have the cure:
An uncommonly large martini, shaken, stirred and gulped down real quick, followed by a second and third. It also cures "post management meeting stress disorder" Unfortunately it can't deal with "Post Steve Bulmer stress disorder" and tends to induce "post martini stress syndrome". You can't win them all. "Life, don't tell me about life..."
Re:EM stress - simpler explanation (Score:2)
Thanks boys, 2 electrical outages in a month.
Re:EM stress - simpler explanation (Score:2)
Only if our body perceive the field (Score:2)
Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:4, Interesting)
This would probably be the opposite of the effect many try to achieve by adding "soothing" environmental sounds (like water from those little water fountain things)... unpleasant noise, even noise that doesn't consciously register, may cause behavioral, mood, or personality alterations.
I know that I find myself rather irritated when I hear the whine of a monitor or TV (bad capacitors). Many people can't hear the sound at all without it being pointed out, but it is something that drives me crazy. In the case of devices that have been ready to go due to caps, I myself may not hear anything but at times I could swear I *felt* the damn thing going...
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:3, Informative)
CRT tubes generally give off a frequency of about 17Khz (from memory
, someone correct me if I'm out which can usually be heard by people
under 30 but over 30 human hearing deteriorates to the point where
*most* people can no longer hear that high. You obviously are either
still fairly young or have good hearing. Or both! But one day you'll
probably find that you can't hear it either anymore.
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
I've read claims that the high-voltage circuit for driving the electron gun also produces high-pitched sound, but it is rare that I hear a computer CRT while I often hear a the high buzz from a television before I actually hear the so
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
circuit. Its the magnetic coils controlling the flyback that induce
minute occilations in themselves and surrounding metal that cause it
I believe.
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:5, Informative)
Then the question is: what is the difference in a construction between a computer CRT and a television CRT that causes the former to be relatively silent? I always assumed that it is the deflector coils that are driven at the hsync frequency. Those coils are big and actually driven at that kind of frequency.
So to dissolve this dispute, I just did an experiment. With a good microphone, I recorded my TV set and then I looked at the waveform in Audacity. I counted 79+/-0.2 oscillations over 5051 microseconds, which gives an acoustic frequency of 15640 +/- 40 Hz for this PAL television. The PAL standard is 625 lines at 50 Hz, factor 2 interleaved, so the hsync frequency is 625*50/2 = 15625 Hz. This is within the margin of error equal to the observed acoustic frequency, which provides strong support for the hypothesis of the horizontal deflection coils causing the high-pitched tone.
For comparison, NTSC is 525 lines at 60/2 Hz, which gives 15750 Hz.
Note that I used an electret microphone which is not sensitive to the magnetic field emitted by the deflection coils.
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
Anyway, to put 2 and 2 together, all the electronic equipment in our offices and homes gives off sound. Kids especially can hear just about every appliance that is plugged in, and you can hear - if not 'feel' - the difference in your house when the power goes out (its usually a relief for most people), which is sort of a deafening s
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
> various frequencies of sound can have adverse effect
That's because we have something called "ears". Point out the electricty sensing organ in the human body and I'd be a lot more inclined to take this nonsense seriously.
Chris Mattern
Re:Subsonics/Supersonics (Score:2)
Here's another theory... (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:Here's another theory... (Score:2, Funny)
No, DON'T think about it!!
Different effects in different countries? (Score:3, Interesting)
Mind you, maybe it's just the annoying hum of transformers that's getting everyone down. I know I hate alarm clocks which hum - I once had to create an isolation platform out of an old face-cloth, a book and some cut squash-balls to minimise the annoying hum from an old alarm I had (whilst I was a very poor student). Mind you, I eventually sorted that problem out by blowing it up by connecting a 90wpc stereo amplifier to its speaker (don't ask - it was an experiment, ok?) and fried the lot
John
Re:Different effects in different countries? (Score:5, Interesting)
However, I suspect you're on to something with transformer hum. Or, more specifically, general low-level noise. My story:
After some fairly major work-related stress, I found I just couldn't sleep properly. Tried the usual things - traditional & non-traditional drugs, meditation, etc - nothing worked for long. But I noticed on some nights I slept much better than others. After a few months I noticed the nights I slept better were the nights when the computers, 2 and 3 rooms away from my bedroom (with closed doors between me and them), were turned off.
Note that these machines are all built to be low-noise - Antec Sonata cases, large low-speed thermostat controlled fans, Zalman heatsinks, low-noise PSUs, etc. They're quiet - in normal use, sitting in front of them, they're barely audible. I definitely couldn't consciously hear them from my bedroom, even in the dead of night. But there was a definite correlation between whether they were on or off, and my sleep quality. Not (consciously) psychosomatic either - remember, it was only after I noticed variations in my sleep quality that I found it correlated to whether they were turned on or off.
Since then, I turn off everything that makes noise, no matter how low level. Computers (unless they're processing something), PVR (unless it's recording something), printer, computer speakers - basically everything that doesn't need to run overnight. I've noticed a definite improvement in my sleep quality (and general stress levels too). Yes, I'm prepared to accept that this part of it could be psychosomatic. But, if it helps me sleep better, I don't give a damn...
So, from my little ad-hoc experiment, I'm quite prepared to believe that continuous low-level noise - or possibly even EM fields - at subconscious levels can have a detrimental affect.
Call me a hypersensitive freak, call me self-deluding, call me a fringe-dwelling tree-hugging anti-technology neo-luddite. I don't care. I'll be sleeping well tonight...
Its all in the mind (Score:5, Insightful)
enviroment really harmed people then as soon as a bolt of lightning
went off in a nearby storm all these "victims" should keel over and
die given the amount of EM power a single bolt puts out. But you
never hear someone saying "storms make me ill" (unless they got a direct
hit of course!). Far more trendy to make out they're some victim of
modern techno society so they can either kids themselves its someone
elses fault they're ill (and nothing to do with hypocondria or some
other mental condition) or so that they can jump on the compensation
bandwagon.
Re:Its all in the mind (Score:2)
bolt I'd get worried sick everytime there was a storm.
Re On the other hand... (Score:2)
Simply rephrasing a sentence is meaningless.
Re:Its all in the mind (Score:2)
living in highly polluted factory areas get ill and if they
went and put their face inside the top of a factory chimney
(which is the same as receiving a huge dose of EM from lightning)
I think you'd find they get ill and die pretty damn quick if
they didn't move.
Re:Its all in the mind (Score:2)
any one area. The combined EM exposure from those is huge, far
more than anything from any electrical equipment.
"They are not all imagining it."
I'm sure they're not imagining the symptoms , but its just
guesswork on their part as to the cause.
It's when (Score:5, Funny)
two words (Score:2, Funny)
Four words needed here: (Score:3, Insightful)
Blind
Controlled
Trial
Hardly surprising (Score:2)
That we were NOT affected by electric noise would be a surprising find. Not this.
And what about that electrical allergy we've h
Re:No such thing. (Score:2)
What I forgot to mention in my previous post was that Dr. Persinger and the Japanese dudes both use EM fields of very specific shapes (That is, shape in time. Think oscilloscope.), and that the amplitude of these fields doesn't seem to be that important. The synapses, which are very easily affected to a noticeab
Re:There is nothing to refute (Score:2)
For further info on the Japanese version, see the link the other guy posted.
You are wrong (Score:2, Interesting)
http://www.wired.com/wired/archive/7.11/persinger. html [wired.com]
Especially this part, in the FIRST PARAGRAPH
"Over a scratchy speaker, a researcher announces, "Jack, one of your electrodes is loose, we're coming in." The 500-pound steel door of the experimental chamber opens with a heavy whoosh; two technicians wearing white lab coats march in. They remove the Ping-Pong-ball halves taped over my eyes and carefully lift a yellow motorcycle helmet that's been retrofitted with electromagnetic field-emitting sol
Re:Hardly surprising (Score:2)
The webserver of the Laurentian University is down, but here [72.14.203.104] is Google Cache's version of it. Interesting stuff.
obligatory Keanu Reeves movie reference (Score:2, Funny)
High pitched sounds? (Score:2)
When I used to work in a stereo shop, with dozens of TV's, they used to use me to go around and turn them all off (after the feeds were shut off, so they were just black screens), since I could hear if
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:2)
I very much suspect the problem is not the em waves at all, but the sounds and the flickering lights they cause. Flicker can cause epileptic seizures in some people. Why substitute an ill-understood source of physiological effects for well understood ones?
I worked with powerful em wave generators for years with no ill effects I could ever detect, but there were no lower frequencies that can affect sound or light (no AM transmitter modulation, for instance.)
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:2)
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:2, Informative)
NTSC television uses a 15KHz horizontal frequency that audiably generates a 15KHz tone. The pitch is so high that most people really hear it like you would a baby crying, but they just sense it as being there. To me, televisions sound similar to ringing in the ears. High audio frequencies are very directional, and thats why you can always seek out the sour
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:2)
Ditto.
I'm rather curious how common this is, as I don't think I've come across anyone else who could hear these ranges.
I've met a few people who said they could too. But it's pretty rare.
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:3, Interesting)
That is EM radiation, but not something that's affecting you. The shielding in computer audio is usually non-existant. In the tight spaces of a laptop, this gets even worse. On my laptop you can "hear" the IR device giving out light. ;-)
Re:High pitched sounds? (Score:2)
Slashdot and Pseudoscience (Score:3, Insightful)
Put stories like this in the comedy section, where they belong.
Psuedoscience (Score:3, Interesting)
1) I lived in a place that had really crazy electrical wiring. As in, about every month or so all three lightbulbs on our cieling fan would all blow out at the same time. If I kept my CRT near one wall, the pattern would make the swimming noises you sometimes see if you put an electric fan near a TV. It made me too nauseous to use it for any extended period of time. Solution? Moved my damn computer to another wall (actually in front of a glass wall -- no EMF interference there).
2) Some fluorescent lights drive me batty. Many lights flicker at double the frequency of the power supply (60hz x 2 = 120hz), which is bloody human noticeable, regardless of how many scientists cast doubt on this. Come to my karate class, wave your hand in front of you, and you'll see multiple images of your hand. Or sometimes no intervening images at all on a punch if you throw it fast enough, which probably makes you look a lot faster than you really are. If you had a "dirty" power supply, I could see it perhaps making a difference to fluorescent lights that are tied to the cycle of the power supply.
Re:Psuedoscience (Score:4, Interesting)
She's been blind on one eye since childhood. She first started getting symptoms (mostly nausea and fatigue) after a few months of working with the first PCs at her work, text editing on monochrome displays. She's never been diagnosed with any real, known medical condition.
She's currently afraid of about anything more high-tech than a stereo. Which is kind of annoying for me, because I believe she really has some kind of medical condition. Getting tired or getting headaches from working with a monitor with refresh rate less than 70hz is familiar to many of us. Reacting the same way to fluorescent lights isn't too far fetched.
Mumbo Jumbo Ahoy! (Score:3, Interesting)
our day to day lives, but that we cannot influence.
(One common thread in all these alternative therapies - at the end of the chain, you have someone raking in the bucks.)
This world needs a little more rational thinking. Either that, or some good homeopathic remedies for gullibility.
Re:Mumbo Jumbo Ahoy! (Score:2)
Future Sight (Score:2)
... I can't believe I just referenced Johnny Mnemonic.
Electromagnetic field no, but just noise, yes. (Score:4, Interesting)
OTOH, he may be honest but barking at wrong tree. When electric power is down, it is not surprising to feel a relief.
Now, there, I am probably not the only one who can say that prolonged exposure to various electric equipment produced, barely audible, sounds (especially high pitch, although hum too) make me feel some of the alleged symptoms. Right now, I hear quite loudly my and/or my coworkers CRT monitor(s) (high voltage transformer ferrite core - magnetostrictive material) and it gives me very unpleasent feeling in my neck. Similar goes for cooling fans hum. And, last but not least, most (cheap) capacitors' dielectrics are piezoelectric materials, so it may happen that some of the HF noise that came from mains "beats" with circuit-generated noise and result is sometimes in audible range.
In last century (give or take a half of century) the noise signature has changed greatly. We have not adapted to that. It seems that authorities (lawmakers) are not aware of magnitude of stress that is imposed on us by noise which is not high in loudness, but just constant and unpleasent/annoying.
Better understanding of the noise phenomenon, better design of electric (electronic) equipment and better health standards should make things bareable. Before anyone invests grands into mains filtering, they should consider good antiphones (both earplugs and earshells), better acoustic insulation for equipment suspected of producing noise and as much time spending outdoors, as far from "funny" sounds as possible.
Electric complexity of modern living (Score:2, Insightful)
Basic problems with this concept: intensity (Score:4, Informative)
We knew that one... (Score:2)
Workman's Comp? (Score:2)
But seriously now, anyone not living in a third world country (and even most of them) is exposed to electrical noise. How can anyone not look at this "study" in a skeptical light? We can probably expect the lawsuits to start any day now, along with the excuses...why yes officer, I did shoot my wife, but it was the electricity that made me do it.
Paging Robert Heinlein (Score:4, Interesting)
Waldo himself was an MD patient so weak that he built himself a satellite to live in so that he could move about under his own power in microgravity. He also diagnosed the problem, created a solution, and rolled up some bucks, so there's Heinlein in a nutshell.
Heinlein wasn't trying to predict anything, but to hit a target at sixty years, now that's good.
I've got the solution! (Score:3, Interesting)
I garantee that my solution is based on the same rigorous scientific research, and same theoretical underpinnings as the "science" in the linked article!
But seriously though, between some people wanting to teach "Intelligent Design" in schools, to people complaining about "bad vibes" coming from their toaster, to the unreasonable fear of nuclear technology, to the unreasonable fear of GM foods, to people wanting to ban research on stem cells, and the whole advent of all kinds of crazy "alternative medical treatments" like inner body massage, or yogurt enemas, or "color therapy" or whatever... the newfound popularity of fundamentalist Christianity or fundamentalist Islam. the proliferation of TV psychics.
Doesn't it seem like the public is become completly anti-science and anti-rationality nowadays? People are believing in all kinds of crap that wouldn't pass the laugh test 20 years ago, and now people take this stuff seriously? And it doesn't seem to be any one political group, or religion, or country - I could understand if it was just one group of ludites or reactionaries doing it - but it seems universal! What the hell is going on?
Re:So... (Score:2)
The guys heresay even made the summary! He even qualifies it in the next sentence with "There is no proof of this, it's just an opinion." (direct quote from TFA). Not only that but none of the informal "studies"
Re:Poor article (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:Poor article (Score:2)
Fruitcake.
Re:Spooky (Score:2)
Have you ever been looking at something
Re:EMFs (Score:3, Informative)
The dose makes the poison (Score:2)
No it isn't (Score:4, Informative)
So, since it's more than obvious (huh? What is "more" than obvious?) you should have no trouble providing the peer reviewed research.
The fact that you've assumed something is more than obvious, despite a dearth of supporting research, calls your motives into question.
"The fact that experiments may not show true correlation for specific frequencies does not disprove the problems."
Really? I thought that's exactly what they showed. Silly me.
How can we take you seriously when you dismiss the research you don't like and drawn a conclusion you do like (based on NO research) all in the same post.
Re:EMFs (Score:2)
NO, you cannot get cancer from living underneath pylons. The research this was based on had serious flaws. Counterevidence of this being electric fields: The effect only appear in a cut-off study, where people were classified as "living close to pylons" and "living far from pylons". When you start gradinging it, there was NO DIFFERENCE between living underneat pylons and living 200 yards from them. And other stud
Re:Neighbours (Score:2)
"healing" bracelets. You can't educate pork.
Re:News for Nerds. (Score:2)