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Golf in Space

Posted by CmdrTaco on Tue Feb 28, 2006 09:50 AM
from the where's-the-orbiting-ball-boy-target dept.
Space Science
deeptrace writes "Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station. The golf ball has an embedded transmitter so that it can be tracked as it orbits. It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry. The golf shot is the result of promotional fees paid to the Russian space agency by a Canadian golf club manufacturer."
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  • is another piece of slightly-too-small-to-track, large-enough-to-annihilite-your-windshield piece of 23,000 MPH space junk to worry about.
    • (1) how fast can you swing IN A FREAKING SPACESUIT?
      (2) the speed of the space junk will be the speed of the space station, +/- the speed of your swing (see (1))
      (3) there is a very thin atmosthere at low earth orbit deteriorating the orbit of anything there, further slowing the golf ball with time
      (4) due to the nature of the spin of the earth and the fact that you get a boost from it, all spacecraft are launched in the same direction.
      (5) therefore any collosion with the golfball at a later time will be a
      • It's true that the golf ball will be going around in something like the ISS orbit (as you point out, there's not much delta-vee in a golf swing) -- but not everyone launches into that orbital plane. Speed of impact for a different orbital plane goes something like 23,000 mph * sin(theta). So, er, I stand corrected: "...Nothing like a 5,000 mph side-window-annihilating golf ball..."

        It's also true that the golf ball, like other small space junk, will eventually re-enter. Will the transmitter still be worki
      • Q: Why did the astronaut bring a spare spacesuit when he went golfing?

        A: In case he got a hole in one! Arf arf!

      • It will very unlikely stay well within the ISS's orbit. It will likely drift due to the initial trajectory. Sure the odds of a hit are low and it has a transmitter that might still be working but why should a satellite or manned object have to change orbit just to avoid some promotional stunt?

        By the way, not all satellites orbit in the same direction, many are in "polar" orbits, i.e. surveillance sats, Iridium sats, etc. A collision would not be low speed in these cases.

        • Re:gah... (Score:5, Interesting)

          by everphilski (877346) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @10:35AM (#14816824) Journal
          Boy, you have no idea how orbits work do you?

          Yes, actually, I do. I'm an aerospace engineer.

          Now Y is moving several thousand miles an hour else it would simply fall to the earth.

          Try several tens of thousands, 17,500 mi/h for LEO.

          It is also moving at several thousand miles an hour, but it's on a reciprocal orbit of the golf ball.

          You didn't read (4). No one uses reciprocal orbits in LEO. Hardly anyone uses reciprocal orbits... ever. The velocity the earth gives you by rotation is significant; working against it is stupid and is used very rarely, and generally only in GEO when you are trying to maintain a constellation of satellites (GPS).

          Now, would you like to guess at the energy transfer of a collision at those speeds?

          Kinetic energy = 1/2 * m * V * V; transfer depends on the elasticity of the collision.

          I'm not stuipd, I just know the assumptions better than you do.
          • Try several tens of thousands, 17,500 mi/h for LEO.

            17,500 mi/h is not even two thens of thousands... dunno about you, but my definition of "several" starts at more than 2 or 3... ;-)

            • several starts at 2, or that is what I was taught.... 17.5 is nearly 2... you get where I am going. Much closer to 20,000 than a few thousand (2,000).
    • Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

      The odds of this being a problem for 'space entrepreneurs' is probably comparable to me winning powerball within the same timeframe. Space is big. Really big.
      • Not only does it contain a transmitter, but the article says it will burn up on re-entry in 3 to 4 years.

        I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

        Or not. I don't have an intuitive feel of the scale of the energies involved, but if the golf ball's projected orbit will last for years, I

        • I don't personally feel comfortable making forecasts of orbital mechanics based on the acceleration vector of a human golf swing. It's not a particularly predictable energy input, and one good slice might put the golf ball into an slightly eccentric permanent orbit.

          I doubt a golf ball can slice in a vacuum. Slicing is all about aerodynamics, and without air, there ain't much slice. And when the ball gets low enough that there is a little air to let it slice, it will just slow it down even more and make it

    • I'd worry less about the golf ball and more about the embarrassed cosmonaut who's trying to push the divot he just made back in to the ISS with the toe of his spacesuit before anyone notices.
      • I might further note that objects in geosynchronous orbit at the same altitude tend to have pretty much the same velocity. For astronatuts, the threat is from a 50mph golfball, not a 23000mph golfball.

        (1) The iss is not in geosync
        (2) What if it hits you going the other way?

  • It'll be like that Seinfeld episode [pkmeco.com] where the technician reaches deep into the innards of a downed satellite, only to pull out a golf ball with a tiny antenna.
  • This is the stupidest idea I've ever heard. We already spend a lot of time and effort tracking the junk that's floating around in orbit without putting stuff there intentionally.

    Getting hit by a golf ball travelling 27,734 km/h would REALLY suck.
    • If you're stationary at that altitude you should be more worried about falling back down than about the very slim chance of getting hit by a golf ball. If you're in orbit you'll be moving at roughly the same speed as the ball - the only way you could have a large difference in speed is if there is a large difference in eccentricity of your orbits, however I expect both you and the ball will be in roughly circular orbits (if you get hit during the short time before you circularise your orbit you're *very* u
      • I smell a basic assumption... Ever hear of a Polar orbit?
      • LDEF taught us a lot about impact damage from space junk, since it was up there for a long time, and was retrieved.

        "With a relative impact velocity of 10 km/s, a piece of aluminum debris which is ~0.7 mm in diameter can penetrate through a typical 2.5 mm thick aluminum satellite wall. During its 5.75 year exposure, LDEF saw one (1) impact of this size per 7 [square meters] of exposed surface area in the RAM direction. In addition to this, LDEF experienced ~1 impact [per square meter], on ram-exposed surface
  • I bet that ball's going to go a fairway.

    Sorry.

  • Oh please god yes (Score:5, Funny)

    by mccalli (323026) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @09:59AM (#14816485) Homepage
    Please. Please send golf into space. As long as it's all golf, and a very long way away from me. A very very long way away from me. Where do I donate? This is a cause worthy of funding.

    Cheers,
    Ian

    • Are we the only 2 people who don't get golf?

      I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

      All this for "a good walk spoiled".

      Sorry, I have an MBA, and I still don't understand the fascination. I can increase positive cash flow by opening my front door and have an unspoiled good walk for free. And that reminds me..

      <RANT>

      And

      • I enjoy golf by buying clubs at Goodwill and other second-hand stores. I've probably spent maybe $50 on supplies in the 4+ years I've been playing. Add to that the $10 fee I pay whenever I feel like playing. It ends up being cheaper than some other hobbies I have. Yeah, I suck... badly. But its still fun.
      • I don't get it at all. You pay a buttload of cash for the equipment, for bad clothing, and for the privilege to play on a manicured field. And you keep paying the latter, over and over again, to avoid sucking that badly.

        All this for "a good walk spoiled".

        This is the reason why. [golftoday.co.uk] It's the money.

      • A-fucking-men. The notion that any competetive activity is a "sport" is a nonsense that ends with things like chess and curling being considered sports.

        I'm with Carlin on this one, there are only three sports. Football; baseball; and basketball. Everything else is either a game or an activity. Golf is definitely not a goddamned sport.

        Carlin's characterization of golf is also dead on: "It's like watching flies fuck."
  • ..at least its not a promotion by the caber-tossing [wikipedia.org] industry.
  • ...until someone's solar array is clobbered by one more little piece of pointless space junk.

    Still, just about anything that might get, say, your average golfer to remember (even for a moment, once a day) that we have stuff, that we put there orbiting around the planet... that's worth it. I wonder sometimes if the occasional golfer who found his way to the new course using the GPS-enabled nav system on his new Lexus is even aware that a bunch of orbiting hardware and thousands of people working on the gr
  • I can't imagine swinging a driver in a full blown space suit is going to be easy. I would be afraid that the ball is get launched at an unexpected angle which one would think could put it into an orbit that may conflict with something else that is already out there.

    -Rick
  • Does "burning up in the atmosphere" count as a hazard?
  • If it lands in the Sahara, that'll cost him a one stroke penalty.
  • Maybe he'll break Alan Shepard's record for the longest drive ever. [bbc.co.uk]
  • Seriously, if you're going to post this stuff at least get your titles to look like the Weekly World News.
  • This might well be the most expensive slice in golf history.

  • In space nobody can here you play golf! (Score:3, Informative)

    by HaydnH (877214) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @10:35AM (#14816816)
    ok, from TFA:

    "The ball is expected to remain in orbit for three to four years."

    "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

    TFA doesn't say if that distance is based on 3 or 4 years, so I'll work out both and give a max & min average velocity:

    Min time in space = 3 years = 1,096 days (2*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 26,304 hours
    Max time in space = 4 years = 1,461 days (3*365 + 1*366: leap year in 2008) = 35,064 hours

    2.1 billion miles / 26,304 hours = 79,835.77 mph
    2.1 billion miles / 35,064 hours = 59,890.49 mph

    So the average speed will be between 59,890.49 mph & 79,835.77 mph!! (or 96,384.16 kph & 128,482.90 kph)

    Considering the speed of sound (at sea level) is 761mph it's just as well in space nobody can here you play golf!

    Haydn.

  • Tentatively scheduled for a spacewalk this summer, a Russian cosmonaut will take his trusty six iron and a special weightless-friendly tee and put a golf ball into orbit from outside the International Space Station.

    Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests. It won't be long until its hull is rented for advertising. I can imagine it eventually looking like a NASCAR racer. The p

    • Is there any better example of the pettiness and utter pointlessness of the ISS? The program has been reduced to a carnival side show of paid stunts and celebrity guests.

      To be honest I think this is exactly what it's going to take to see real human exploration of space. It's easy to see that they countries with the resources are willing to do little to make a real space program, we need commercial dollars invested and if this little stunt is going to show a profit and help the ISS along I'm all for it.
  • ...they really take this "free market" philosophy way too seriously ;-) hehehe it's all kind of ironic that the Russians are the guys who are funding their space program through space tourism, commercial tie-ups, etc, and the Americans are the ones who don't like the idea of private money in space? Who'd have thought it 20 years ago?
  • Why doesn't he use a driver?
  • It is expected to orbit for 3 to 4 years before burning up on re-entry.

    I can't hit a golf ball 30 feet. This is impressive. I would like to think that it would either burn up or move from the planet faster. I always felt that keeping something in orbit was a bit harder than basically hitting it with a stick.

    • Re:Yardage? (Score:5, Informative)

      by HaydnH (877214) on Tuesday February 28 2006, @10:14AM (#14816609)
      "So I wonder how many yards it will travel in 3 or 4 years before it burns up? This is going to be the longest drive ever."

      From TFA:

      "The ball is expected to travel up to 2.1 billion miles before it drops back into the atmosphere and burns up."

      <sarcasm>I know it's a really hard conversion, especially for the techie crowd on /.</sarcasm> - that's 3696 billion yards.
      • http://www.google.com/ [google.com]

        2.1 billion miles to yards
        • From google: 2.1 billion miles = 3 696 000 000 000 yards

          <pedantic comment>That's not necessarily true, TFA doesn't mention if it uses the American billion (most probable) or the British billion (3 extra 0's)... while google is possibly correct, it could also be wrong if the article uses the British billion. However 2.1 billion miles = 3,696 billion yards as long as both sides of the expression use the same billion.</pedantic comment>

          You can slap me now =)
      • Well since it's orbiting, it should keep returning past the spot it started at negating the yardage, so basically the farthest it can go is the diameter of the circle crerated by it's orbit.

        And you can't really measure the yardage until the ball lands and comes to a stop... and since this ball will never land (it will disintegrate before landing), it'll never count.

        Plus, if you count distance from where it was launched, and keep in mind that the space station keeps on moving after the ball stops, it'll

        • Actually, thats only partially true. When golf first started, they had a guy called a 'fore-caddy' - his job was to walk out in front of you, to see where your ball landed, and guide you to it after you hit it.

          Calling out 'Fore!' let him know to keep an eye out for the ball.

          Nowadays, it just kinda means 'duck!' though :)

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