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Scientists Produce Fearless Mice

Posted by CowboyNeal on Fri Nov 18, 2005 02:43 AM
from the no-cheese-is-safe dept.
Dotnaught writes "According to New Scientist, a Rutgers University geneticist has found that turning off a specific gene for the protein stathmin makes mice fearless. The story speculates that this research might improve treatment for phobias. It does not mention obvious military applications for the discovery. As noted in this Naval Officer's guide for managing fatigue, the use of amphetamines to stay alert, followed by sedatives to sleep, has a long tradition. Genetic treatments may offer an alternative to pharmaceuticals."
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  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 18 2005, @02:45AM (#14060771)

    These mice escape and breed in the wild. Enormous of fearless mice terrorize the world's cat population. It's not going to be pretty.

    • by KingSkippus (799657) * on Friday November 18 2005, @03:01AM (#14060824) Homepage Journal
      Three mice were sitting in a bar, each trying to impress the others with how tough they were.

      The first one said, "When I see a mousetrap, I deliberately set it off, bench press the bar fifty times, then snack on the cheese."

      The second one, not to be outdone, said, "Yeah? Well, every morning when I get out of bed, I stir in some cream and rat poison in my coffee. It gives me a good buzz that really wakes me up and gets me going."

      They both look at the third mouse who, after a few seconds, gets up and says, "I don't have time for this bullshit. I've got to go home and fuck the cat."
    • by bersl2 (689221) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:17AM (#14060887) Journal
      Here's what I was thinking:

      NIMH unavailable for comment.
    • lots of dead mice.
    • If you put a fearless mouse in the wild, it will die like anything else that lacks a healthy sense of which dangers are worth avoiding.
      • In fact this situation is possible and not funny at all.
        It was the night before Christmas and a creature was stirring. It was a mouse, a grey mouse, a lean and hungry grey mouse.
        A slight breeze shuffled discarded newspapers in the grimy alley as the mouse crept a little closer to its prey. The tip of its scaly tail twitched in anticipation as it tensed its muscles for the leap.

        With saliva dripping from its fangs, the mouse covered the intervening centimetres in a huge bound, jaws fastening viciously onto its prey, a high-pitched growl issuing from deep from within its belly. Snarling, the ferocious rodent tore at the flesh of its enemy, and the rottweiler leapt to its feet with a surprised yelp.

        The mouse, every muscle shaking with anger and bloodlust, bit deeper through the rottweiler's fur, amost drawing blood, until the startled dog nipped its head off and swallowed it.
        No, you're right, it isn't funny.
      • by GuyWithLag (621929) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:47AM (#14060986)
        In fact, I've seen a cat being chased by a mouse. Yes, a mouse, not a rat... Talk about a Bizarro-style experience ....
        • by WillerZ (814133) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:59AM (#14061022) Homepage
          Dude, that was Tom & Jerry.
        • I've seen cats being bullied by a bird. At my folks' place, they had this bird fly in one day, some yellow tropical one. Because the bird wouldn't go away, and nobody responded to the ad they put up, they decided to keep it, so they got a cage and all that.

          They also have two cats. I tend to attribute all kinds of things to cats, and one of them is that they have a sense of what they're allowed to do and what not. I guess the cats figured that this bird was part of the household, and somebody would get very
          • by kryten_nl (863119) on Friday November 18 2005, @07:45AM (#14061647)
            Eventually, the bird flew away, never to return.

            That's what the cat told you, wasn't it?
          • by jasen666 (88727) on Friday November 18 2005, @11:27AM (#14063250)
            We've got a 25 yr old Mexican Red-headed parrot that's a holy terror. He's not big, a little larger than a cockatiel, but he's a mean bastard. The thing loves my wife, gets all cudly and shit, but anyone else that comes near the cage, and he's out trying to tear you apart. Took a chunk out of the cat once, and the cat won't go near that room anymore.
  • Good old PCP (Score:5, Insightful)

    by ReformedExCon (897248) <reformed.excon@gmail.com> on Friday November 18 2005, @02:46AM (#14060775)
    Whatever happened to the good old days of pumping soldiers full of angel dust to rid them of fear?

    The non-military uses for such a treatment are pretty far-reaching. Would it be able to cure people that suffer anxiety attacks? Could children with night terrors be cured?

    If the rats don't feel fear, do they also lose understanding of danger? That would be a pretty bad mutation.
    • Re:Good old PCP (Score:5, Insightful)

      by general_re (8883) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:50AM (#14060788) Homepage
      If the rats don't feel fear, do they also lose understanding of danger? That would be a pretty bad mutation.

      My first thought also. There are some situations where fear is an entirely appropriate response - lose it, and unwarranted risks may start to become a problem.

    • Whatever happened to the good old days of pumping soldiers full of angel dust to rid them of fear?

      Um, source?

      From my experience, PCP would be a terrible thing to give soldiers. You'd end up with a Jacob's Ladder scenario where they become afraid of - and attack - friends and enemies at random.
      • You'd end up with a Jacob's Ladder scenario where they become afraid of - and attack - friends and enemies at random.

        Probably not unless overdosed. However PCP would still be utterly useless because it's a strong anesthetic, the soldiers would be just staring blankly and would have difficulties understanding even the most basic orders. You'd be better off giving them bottles of hard liquor.
              • by HTH NE1 (675604) on Friday November 18 2005, @11:55AM (#14063540)
                Users of PCP report memory loss, difficulties with speech and learning, depression, and weight loss. These symptoms can persist up to a year after cessation of PCP use. PCP has sedative effects, and interactions with other central nervous system depressants, such as alcohol and benzodiazepines, can lead to coma or accidental overdose. Use of PCP among adolescents may interfere with hormones related to normal growth and development.

                Ask your doctor if PCP is right for you.
    • I don't think rats have very much "understanding" of danger. Why should they? They have their instincts. Well, at least until now.
  • by sTalking_Goat (670565) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:49AM (#14060784) Homepage
    The one were Scarecrow does Batman with a gas that took away all his fear?

    That was awesome.

  • by mindflow (557496) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:50AM (#14060787)
    Now scientist need to figure out how to make theese mice pilot planes.
  • by stirz (839003) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:51AM (#14060790)
    Giving Methamphetamines to soldies to "stay alert" and to "strengthen confidence" has -sadly enough- a long tradition. As Wikipedia tells us [wikipedia.org] even the Nazis spreaded the drug among their Wehrmacht. What's the point of a government saying "Stay away from drugs!" on the one hand and willingly giving it to soldiers on the other?

    Seems alright, I quit military service a long time ago...

    Regards

    Stirz
    • What's the point of a government saying "Stay away from drugs!"

      That's all you needed to say. There isn't two hands. Governments should butt the hell out and mind their own business.
    • by skinfitz (564041) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:06AM (#14060847) Journal
      How is this different to a Government saying "Don't kill people!" then putting guns and high explosives into the hands of soldiers?

      The only logic here is 'do what we say and don't question anything.'
    • by Mjlner (609829) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:19AM (#14060895) Journal
      "As Wikipedia tells us even the Nazis spreaded the drug among their Wehrmacht."

      What do you mean, "even the Nazis"? A totalitarian government, emphasizing the military and denial of the individual, would be almost expected to do this. What is more scary, is that democracies, which we expect to respect and defend the rights of the individual, even to the point of restricting what the police and military can do, are chemically altering the bodies and minds of their soldiers.

  • by Anonymous Coward on Friday November 18 2005, @02:52AM (#14060795)
    Looks like Isadore Klein beat them to the punch. He created a fearless mouse in 1942. http://www.toonopedia.com/mightym.htm [toonopedia.com]
  • by Plunky (929104) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:53AM (#14060799)
    Come on Mickey, are you a MAN or a MOUSE?

    AAAAAAAAAGGHHHH!
  • by Gunnery Sgt. Hartman (221748) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:54AM (#14060801) Homepage
    More mice have been committing suicide by cat.
  • by Mjlner (609829) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:55AM (#14060807) Journal

    ...or just plain stupid?

  • by vodkamattvt (819309) on Friday November 18 2005, @02:58AM (#14060821) Homepage
    So we got fear, now there are a few more emotions to get rid of and we can make Equilibrium come true. Now that's practical applicaton of science.
  • by wenchmagnet (745079) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:01AM (#14060827)
    He's The Best
    He's The Greatest
    He's The Greatest Secret Agent In The World!
    He's The Ace - He's Amazing...
    He's the Strongest... He's The Quickest.... He's The Best!
  • by artifex2004 (766107) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:09AM (#14060858) Journal
    The two certainly do not equate.
  • people nowadays like to talk about fear in ideological and propagandistic terms, but fear keeps you alive. it keeps you from wandering into traffic or picking fights with random people. if this were ever applied to humans, you wouldn't have superhuman heroic fighters for the military, you'd have guys shooting themselves with their own guns and jumping off roofs... why not, when you're not afraid of anything, including death
    • Fear is an emotion that rules our lives from moment to moment. Losing fear doesn't mean losing sanity, actually is usually means the opposite.
    • by UserGoogol (623581) on Friday November 18 2005, @05:16AM (#14061240)
      I don't think so. Fear is not the source of all human behavior. Without fear, people could still say, "Well... I could jump off the roof, but then I'd probably break a few bones, and that would hurt, and I don't like being hurt." (After all, you are arguing right now that there is something inherently bad about being shot in the head, surely a fearless person might be able to see your argument.)

      Fear is merely a mental shortcut. Instead of rationally arguing that doing something will lead to an unadvantageous situation, our brains merely automatically develop fears of the situation and we avoid it quasi-instinctually.

      That said, if you were to completely remove fear without changing anything else, I do not doubt that shit would happen. Human beings are nowhere near as smart as they could be, and are probably not capable of thinking things out clearly enough. As it stands, we probably need mental crutches like fear until we are able to augment our intelligence.

      But still, we should not imply that fear and desire are the only things capable of driving people. Fear is distinct from pain, desire is distinct from happiness.
  • What about a laser mounted on the backs of these mice?

    Oh, never mind
  • by ultranova (717540) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:25AM (#14060917)

    It does not mention obvious military applications for the discovery.

    That's because there is no military applications. You don't want the soldiers to become fearless, because if they do, they might say: "This war is wrong. I used to be too afraid to do anything about it, but now I suddenly feel fearless, and will get the heck away from here !" Basically, fearless soldiers will refuse to obey when given orders that they think are wrong, and cannot be forced to obey by fear of punishment.

    What you want is soldiers that are more afraid of their commanding officers than the enemy; that way they'll follow orders.

    • by varjag (415848) on Friday November 18 2005, @05:13AM (#14061230)
      What you want is soldiers that are more afraid of their commanding officers than the enemy; that way they'll follow orders.

      It is a bit of oversimplification. Soldiers can be motivated by things other than fear: the sense of friendship, pride, the feeling of responsibility and (misguided or not) patriotism. History is full with exapmles of people knowingly and willingly sacrificing their life for good of others, ranging from Spartans to Soviet atheists (neither of those could even hope for a decent afterlife: the void of Hades ain't much better than simple non-existance). I believe that in Iraq fights of today you could find such instances at both sides involved, too.

      That said, your general argument remains valid. Humans for high command are mostly numbers, and are operated from statistical point of view. They would hate to rely solely for underlings' loyalty.
      • Did you see the interview with the tank drivers when they were talking about what kinds of music they were playing while on a "mission"? It was clear that whatever other motivations they had for killing enjoyment was undeniably a factor.

        I think we overlook how much fun it is to kill. It does satisfy a deep urging we have as animals. It's why people hunt, It's why children enjoy ripping legs off of grasshoppers, I knew a guy who used to buy mice and hit them with a golf club. There is a tremendous fun elemen
  • by rathehun (818491) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:32AM (#14060933) Homepage
    ....have a large stock of cheese, for our new....
  • by TheLoneDanger (611268) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:35AM (#14060940)
    Why the hell shouldn't they be fearless, when they are now regenerating [slashdot.org] too? Goddammit, we have to stop this madness before we are overrun by marauding fearless regenerating mice. The irony is that we need many, many more fearful, even irrationally fearful peopl to avert this impending horror. Scream with me people! "The Mice are coming! The Mice are coming!"
  • by Julian Morrison (5575) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:38AM (#14060956)
    "Hey check this out, I'm not in the least afraid anymore. Hmm, I wonder what it feels like to plough an airplane into the ground on full afterburner. Whee, fast! Hello mr cornfield. Ooh, a scarecrow. My, that ground sure is big."
  • USB (Score:5, Funny)

    by linumax (910946) on Friday November 18 2005, @03:44AM (#14060977)
    Does this have any impact on USB mice?
  • by surfcow (169572) on Friday November 18 2005, @05:07AM (#14061207) Homepage
    Ok, so they found a clever way to turn down fear.

    I wonder if they can use this knowledge to do the opposite: turn fear way up? How might that be used & abused? Say around election time?

    The idea is ... scary.
  • by Karem Lore (649920) on Friday November 18 2005, @06:30AM (#14061431)
    They are called lemmings...
    • See, it was all as Douglas Adams predicted. This proves that mice really are pan-dimensional super soldiers waiting to be triggered. I, for one, welcome our new fearless rodent overlords!
    • I think you meant...
      I, for one, welcome our new fearless rodent overlords. I'd like to remind them as a trusted Slashdot poster, I can be helpful in rounding up others to toil in their underground cheese caves.