Anxiety Disorders Discoverable by Blood Test 407
Tomer Yaffe writes to tell us that researchers at the Hebrew University in Jerusalem have discovered a technique to diagnose anxiety disorders with a simple blood test. From the article: "The researchers hope that the anxiety blood test will soon make its way into hospitals and E.R. rooms and give doctors and psychiatrists a quick and precise tool for examining, and eventually treating, these disorders." The team has also set their sights on depression, hoping for a similar technique to detect these types of disorders as well.
What if their anxiety disorders involve needles? (Score:5, Funny)
Stop squirming away from the needle! We need to run this test on you!
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:5, Funny)
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:2)
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:2)
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:4, Interesting)
Then when you get to taking blood or DNA collection... Jesus. I have enough worries just thinking about medical records, anything written down about me that has the potential to be used against me, especially considering the sorry state of any type of security and the ability of others to gain access to that information through various means.
The paranoid definitely are a group that rarely seeks out "help", this is clear from the DSM and other sources (very few PPD individuals seek treatment compared to other "disorders"), and I can testify first hand that the idea of blood being collected from me, or submitting myself to urine tests or the like certainly is something I would avoid.
(open
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:3, Funny)
Re:What if their anxiety disorders involve needles (Score:3, Funny)
Wife: "Oh, God, I'm in agony!"
Husband (holding strip): "Honey, you don't have a headache."
Wife: "Oh, thank God!"
As a psych student (Score:5, Informative)
Re:As a psych student (Score:2, Informative)
By proving beyond all doubt the existence of an anxiety disorder this blood test could allow doctors to perscribe such medications without fear of having their license revoked for the over-perscription of a sc
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
And I wonder how the results of this test can be affected by time. When someone has anxiety, it's a pervasive thing that affects their daily living. But what if someone hears anxiety-causing info just before the blood test, or what if hospitals and blood tests make you highly anxious? Will the test be
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
I don't know about you, but I don't know anyone who refuses to admit they have an anxiety disorder. However I know plenty of people who's doctors
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
So why are you trying to convince someone they suffer from anxiety?
This is one of the many problems I have with psychologists. The only thing psychologists have done is provide a successful theory
As a crazy person.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:As a psych student (Score:5, Insightful)
This is a test for the chemical indicators of anxiety itself, a positive test would indicate anxiety not the disorder. Anxiety itself is a natural response to certain perceived situations. A disorder would still have to be identified by careful observation and a history of anxiety in situations most people aren't anxious about or anxiety levels that don't diminish in normal period of time after a perceived threat. So, you would need to test over a period of time and perhaps before, during and after exposing a person to some situation that would normally cause anxiety.
Of course, if needles make you anxious, then the test won't tell you anything except who doesn't like needles.
Re:As a psychologist (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:3, Insightful)
That said, if such a test were used to identify those suffering from such illnesses, would you as a clinician prescribe such drugs, or would you focus on alternative therapies?
Re:As a psychologist (Score:5, Informative)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:3, Interesting)
I wish you well in your studies and your practice.
Re:As a psychologist (Score:3, Insightful)
And mostly clueless.
Medications are useful when prescribed properly. And no amount of therapy will help severe depression. Granted, getting the proper medication and dosing can be difficult. And if you think medication is costly, it is often cheap compared to therapy....
"And I absolutely doubt the abilities of a doctor who speaks to a patient for only an hour a week then gives a few pills."
That, btw, would be exc
Wait a second... (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Wait a second... (Score:3, Funny)
Is it possible we've got informed debate on
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
However, I would be very curious about the acc
Scientological Explanation for These Results (Score:3, Funny)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
I realize some people would use the knowledge that they have a chemical/physical disorder as a
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2)
I won't claim expertise in clinical psychology, but from everything I have seen, psychological disorders are varied, with causes ranging from factors controllable by the patient to severe stress caused by family, job, or other social factors to environmental factors. In some cases then it may be important for the patient to assume responsibility, but in others there is likely not much he or she can do, at least not without chemical assistance. In any case, in disorders where it is hard to get the patient t
As a psychologist with a different scope of view (Score:2)
Besides having difficulties in recognizing simple cause-consequence relations in a complex world I sincerely wonder how you in your studies came to the conclusion that disregulations on the "material" side may be rated as a "cause".
CC.
Which explains why many psychologists (Score:5, Insightful)
"Fixing" the person is like walpapering a house with collapsed foundations. It'll make the problem invisible... for a while. But unless you fix the foundations, the house will still fall down. Likewise, fixing the foundations alone may prevent further damage, but the inside of the house will still look a wreck.
The job of ANYONE in (or around) mental health is to correct all of the aspects of the mental health problem they are dealing with. A partial solution can be worse than no solution at all, especially if you keep telling the patient that it's all the patient's fault/responsibility.
Establishing a cause, like faulty genes, allows the patient to remedy the underlying problem. Most genetic or biological problems are solvable with the right regemen, but unless you identify those underlying issues, you will NEVER identify the regemen that needs to be followed. And the patient will suffer the consequences of your inaction by deteriorating further. However, such treatment will only ever stabilize a condition. It won't cure it. Curing DOES require the patient to take responsibility for their actions, for their lives and for getting better.
To ask them to take that responsibility whilst their brain is chemically or electically up the spout, though, is about as intelligent as telling the skydiver whose parachute has failed that all they need do is flap their arms faster. Hardware failure requires a hardware solution. Software failure (in this case, the mind of the person) requires a software solution. NEVER assume that hardware will fix faulty software, or software will ever compensate for defective hardware.
Remedy the fault, NOT the fault's owner.
Re:Which explains why many psychologists (Score:4, Interesting)
Since then, I've been focusing on making a lot of progress on my own, and have been doing well. But my mistrust in psychiatric professionals is shaken once again. Especially when said shrink calls and bitches me out for missing an appointment that was set 6 months ago, and was in another calendar at another JOB (that I no longer have, and that my NEW insurance won't cover. So what? He sent me a bill and didn't renew my prescription. So now, in order to that, I have to pay him his $250 bucks an hour (of which I get 10 minutes), and listen to him talk about his support for the gay boys of SD. *BARF* All so I can get him to renew a drug that I KNOW and can prove is working, combatting my anxiety and fears, so that I can learn to better face them on my own.
Jho
Re:Which explains why many psychologists (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:One Designer for Another (Score:4, Interesting)
Typically, a hostile environment will result in the brain chemistry becoming wacked-out. At that point, just altering the environment will no longer be effective - all you're doing is not making the problem worse, but you're not correcting it. However, just treating the brain chemistry won't help either - you'll temporarily fix things, but they'll eventually slide back downhill. You'll constantly have to add more and more of an offset, just to keep pace, and eventually the body will become resistant or die of an overdose.
The correct cure, in such a case, is to remedy the environment (or how the person interacts with it) PLUS medicine to offset the changes to the brain, possibly also some counselling to understand the errors in perception caused by the environment and/or brain chemistry.
What won't help is someone telling you it's all your fault. (If you know better, it's useless information and if you don't, it'll make things worse.) What is needed is not blame but perspective, some sort of solid ground you can aim for, and some plan of action on how to get there.
Another poster suggested I was a scientologist! What a laugh! They've no perspective at all! Anyone who can say that brain chemistry is never an issue is deluding themselves and others. Virtually every experience we have will alter our brain chemistry in some way, and if that way is harmful and becomes semi-permanent - or even permanent - then you will need to take medication to counteract that.
Brain chemistry rarely alters itself (although that does happen), so if you need medicines, there's an excellent chance that you'll need something else to deal with whatever caused the problem in the first place.
Does therapy have a place? Yes - but it's down the list. You might go to a physiotherapist after breaking bones severely in an accident to retrain your coordination. But you wouldn't go until AFTER receiving treatment for your injuries and AFTER your bones are mended. Bleeding to death on the physiotherapist's floor isn't going to help you very much.
ONCE you've got the underlying issues taken care of well enough for you to be able to have perspective (it doesn't have to be perfect, you just have to not be dead) THEN therapy makes sense. If you can't have perspective, all you're doing is wasting time and money. Therapy relies on you wanting to change, but you can't have a want if you aren't in a position to choose.
Re:As a psychologist (Score:2, Interesting)
Re:As a psychologist (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
Re:Research Purposes (Score:2)
Re:Research Purposes (Score:2)
Re:Research Purposes (Score:4, Informative)
Look at the research of Jon Kabat-Zinn. Here's an example [nih.gov].
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
Considering that pointing a gun at a person's head and threatening to kill him if he didn't stop some uncontrollable (or at least very hard to control...) behavior, actually increases anxiety in a normal person by quite a bit, would this make anxiety an anti-preference?
Re:As a psych student (Score:2)
Your explanation is bunk. A mental illness is a PHYSICAL and PSYCHOLOGICAL state, and being the both are influencing each other, they are not matters of choice.
If you put a gun to a severe depressives head, and told them you would shoot them if they didn't stop being suicidal, they would smile at you, and say "please".
Mental illnesses are as real as a broken limb or a disease, the
Oh wonderful (Score:3, Insightful)
Screening (Score:4, Insightful)
My only worry (Score:4, Interesting)
In any event, it'd probably be better if doctors got to work on making some antidepressants with less overt side effects before they learn to diagnose it...I mean I've just started taking Prozac, and already I'm getting headaches, and the leaflet with the pills has a whole lot more side effects to watch out for.
Re:My only worry (Score:2)
On a side note: My wife took Prozac and turned bipolar as a consequence, so take care.
CC
Re:My only worry (Score:2)
If the blood test comes back negative, then maybe it is not the anxiety disorder that the test was designed to test for. It could still be something else, something purely psychological, or something else entirely.
A test never tells you that you are not sick. It can just tell you t
Re:My only worry (Score:2)
they no longer believe in "first, do no harm".
now it's "first, get the money"
drive thru doctors i call em.
in and out as quickly as possible.
sure there are still good doctors... somewhere. i might even meet one someday.
Health "Maintenance" Organizations.... sort of like the PATRIOT act / DRM... named appropriately.
Re:My only worry (Score:2)
Re:My only worry (Score:2)
Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2, Interesting)
The was one fellow I worked with, Trent, who was in that cycle, and was always very anxious and i
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
In all serousness, though, I eliminated caffeine from my diet for several years (I have an occasional bit now and then these days) and I felt much better physically and mentally afterwards.
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
Stimulants, including caffeine, can indeed exacerbate anxiety in some people, but they are a minority of users. For most, stimulants improve concentration and task performance. A fairly interesting recent study detailing some of the mechanics and effects of caffeine is here [scielo.br].
Personally though, it's been my observation most people are prone to anxiety when having blood drawn or given an injection; I'm not necessarily sure that warrants medication.
Caffeine also has another interaction with this test in tha
More info regarding that study. (Score:2)
Re:More info regarding that study. (Score:2)
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
Too much caffeine can cause the same sort of symptoms as various anxiety disorders, but that's relatively easy to diagnose and treat. And cutting back or eliminating caffiene is almost always recommended in treatment of people with anxiety disorders. Caffiene can also make tranquilizers and other therapi
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
Basically, you're saying that someone that is probably taking far too much caffeine is having negative effects. That's not really surprising. I have 29 ounces or less of Coke each day, and that's about all the caffeine I have (occasionally I'll have a chocolate candy bar or something, but that's rare I believe that's roughly the same amount of caffeine as a single cup of coffee,
Re:Anxiety caused by too much caffeine. (Score:2)
So while that amount of caffeine may not affect you in any way (perhaps because you're a large, burly man; am I right?), it may affect others. And there are people who drink far more than the single can of Coke, or whatever measure it was you used.
Let's look at the definition, chico. (Score:2)
Indeed, very often anxiety is caused by excessive caffeine consumption. While it isn't obsessive-compulsive disorder by any means, caffeine-induced anxiety
Re:Let's look at the definition, chico. (Score:2)
How is this any better? (Score:2)
So, if people are reluctant to undergo examination by a doctor what makes the researches believe that they will appreciate being stuck w/a needle and then have to sit around and wait out their results?
Re:How is this any better? (Score:2)
Dangerous (Score:4, Insightful)
The last thing we need are doctors relying even *more* upon tests rather than listening to their patients.
Re:Dangerous (Score:4, Insightful)
No shit, Sherlock. You've just oversimplified the situation, then complained that it was too simple.
This is no different than any other medical test. Patient complains and doctor takes complaints + test results + research + experience to figure out what's going on. Complaints + results don't jive? Well, then more questions, tests, research, querying other doctors.
Re:Dangerous (Score:3)
Yet another study to take with a large grain of salt. This "news" is a press release. Has it been reported in a medical journal? Has it been replicated by other researchers?
The researchers say they found abnormal cholinesterase levels in 4 groups of people:
"women, African-American, people with low Body Mass Index (BMI) and people who have suffered a previous trauma in their lives"
Perhaps they have weighted their sample with people generally mor
Needlephobia (Score:2)
Especially easy to spot during this blood test is the anxiety of needles.... http://www.needlephobia.co.uk/ [needlephobia.co.uk]
won't work (Score:2)
Who needs tests when we have Tom Cruise (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Who needs tests when we have Tom Cruise (Score:2)
If Tom Cruise could actually wake up to the fact that sunlight, Prosac, and excersize have similar though quantitatively different effects on the brain, maybe he would wake up to the fact that Scientology is full of half-truths well told, though he cannot tell them half as well.
Now, anxiety disorders are different than depression. I
Re:Who needs tests when we have Tom Cruise (Score:5, Interesting)
Actually, exercise does increase the dopaminergic tone in the brain, the mechanism involved is a short-lived change in gene expression that upregulates calcium transport. It has also been shown to increase the number of dopamine receptors in animal models.
This is relevant because the common mechanism of effect behind SSRI-based antidepressants involves the sensitization of the dopaminergic system via increased serotonin levels. Some antidepressant medication actually has no direct interaction with sertonin at all.
This [nih.gov] study shows an effectiveness of 50% of the use of exercise in relieving symptoms of depression, which is approximately that of antidepressant medication or cognitive behavioral therapy alone. Of course, it is likely the best results would come from a combination of all three.
Re:Who needs tests when we have Tom Cruise (Score:5, Insightful)
In any event, Cruise is a fruitcake who should simply get less media time for his outbursts. Sure, you don't want to put somebody on a pill because they had a bad hair day or are just going through a difficult time in their lives. But my father suffered severe clinical depression for the last twenty years of his life, and no amount of imagination and exercise would ever have reversed that. It wasn't until he was put on one of the early antidepressants that he got his life back, and returned to being the father I had always known. People like Cruise should either get medical degrees and learn some facts, or just shut the hell up. God, that man irritates me.
I hope he eventually suffers from clinical depression. We'll see how long it takes him to give up his Scientological "principles" and get on the proper medication. Maybe he won't
I call bullshit (Score:2)
NaCl present in blood, it must be depression
As former OCD, I am concerned (Score:5, Insightful)
I read TFA.
The problem I see with this kind of testing is the cases where the diagnosed individual refuses treatment. The stigma against being labeled as "crazy" is still crushingly huge, and this is a signifigant reason why many people who suffer from emotional disorders refuse to seek treatment. They see it as a sign of weakness, of "not being able to handle things themselves."
So I forsee and fear individuals getting stuck with a (mandatory) needle then being told, "You are anxious", and "You must submit to treatment". The world knows no shortage of elitist M.D.s who hate the notion of a patient not obeying their very learned whim. Why not use the police to force these people into treatment? Perhaps I'm just being paranoid [altheal.org].
Or maybe I'm just anxious...
Re:As former OCD, I am concerned (Score:2)
Re:As former OCD, I am concerned (Score:3, Insightful)
I can see this being the case for many types of mental illness, such as schizophrenia, but anxiety disorders are a little different. People come into the emergency room absolutely convinced that they are dying or having a heart attack or really going full-blown crazy. They know something is wrong, and the overwhelming majority of them will be very relieved to hear the doctor say "You're not dying.
Re:As former OCD, I am concerned (Score:4, Interesting)
Secondly, this blood test means that a new symptomatic treatment is likely to be developed. The pharma companies will design a drug which nullifies the effect measured with the blood test, and will then proclaim loudly that they have cured anxiety. And sell lots of lifetime supplies of some random chemical with no useful effect.
Incidently, I spent a year with GAD treated with the usual pointless chemicals before curing myself with kava, reliable sleep and CBT. Kava is fantastic for anxiety, btw - it is not habit forming, has a noticable effect within half an hour and gives you wonderful lucid dreams
effects of acetylcholinesterase (Score:3, Interesting)
I would like to see someone take this new information and conduct another study of the people suffering from Gulf War syndrome - both with physical weakness and mental / anxiety problems. I bet they would discover that many of them were either exposed to a nerve agent or an antidote on some level. It's sad that so many veterans are suffering and our government has made no real effort to help them.
It works like this, simply (Score:3, Funny)
In other news... (Score:2, Funny)
Should we make everyone "normal"? (Score:2, Insightful)
Note: I'm no a fan of PC (politically-correct) diversity, but do see value in variety to maximize total economic performance across a range of conditions and fields of endeavor.
Re:Should we make everyone "normal"? (Score:2)
Re:Should we make everyone "normal"? (Score:3, Informative)
If it works, it's a step out of the dark ages (Score:2, Interesting)
And then they try you on some anti-depressant and ask you the same questions 2 months later to see if it's working. If it's not working, they switch to another medication, rinse and repeat.
This is seriously lame, and in the case of depression, might easily cause you to g
Anxiety ... In Isreal.... (Score:2)
Geez, in a Jeruselem hospital, you only have to take blood from anyone that happens to be there in the waiting room and I bet you find an anxiety disorder... bet that was hard to test out?
Just my thoughts...
I have anxiety disorder (Score:5, Interesting)
I wish this test had been around when I blew my top a few times and ended up in the emergency room. Each visit resulted in a different hypothesis on what was wrong with me, from dehydration to renault's syndrome.
The shit is scary enough when you have no idea what is wrong with you. For most anxiety sufferers, the first half dozen of earthquake sized panic attacks are almost always assumed to be physical problems. I believe I had brain cancer, lung cancer, intestinal cancer, heart problems, etc. Had I been shown a test result that read anxiety, I would have saved a lot of additional anxiety worrying about whether or not my ticker was going to go at any given moment.
Good news.
Re:I have anxiety disorder (Score:5, Funny)
Tsk. Lucky you. I was recently diagnosed with Porsche syndrome. Unlike Renault, the Porsche syndrome leads to increased bloodflow which can only be countered with huges doses of adrenaline to even things out.
However, I still consider myself to be relatively lucky. A friend was diagnosed with Trabant syndrome. Now that is cause for anxiety...
Breaking down the last barriers (Score:2)
Well, if this tests becomes widespread, the notion that anxiety and depression
Humanity will be made better by this, I'm SERIOUS! (Score:4, Insightful)
When we eliminate something that wastes the lives of 13% of the population, and if you've ever known someone with an anxiety disorder you'll know how much of their life they waste, won't that improve the human condition more than just about anything else? What's better, is these fixes to mental health improve things throughout society, letting people avoid destructive compulsions and reach their full potential.
This Could Drastically Reduce Diagnosis Costs (Score:2, Informative)
The Value Here is... (Score:3, Interesting)
I know that if my son was diagnosed with ADD, I would feel much more comfortable having him treated with ritalin or whatever if the doctor had a blood test (or something more concrete than "He's all fidgety in class") to back it up.
Re:The Value Here is... (Score:2)
This test basically looks for markers of stress, and does not establish a gene polymorphism or biological cause behind anxiety and depression, although I believe some have already been identified and there's likely much more beyond our current understanding.
ADD tends to be characterized biologically by depressed activity in the prefrontal cortex and temporal lobes of the brain, I do not believe there are any blood markers you can look for. It is possible to use neural imaging to established the depressed
Hopefully they'll get this for ADD as well ... (Score:3, Funny)
I just don't have the attention span for that kind of commitment. Anyways, time to go find something else to post about...
I know I've stolen this from numerous comedians ...
How they do that? (Score:2)
Damien
not surprising (Score:2)
They cheated (Score:3, Funny)
Blood test: compare DNA sample to that of a Jewish mother.
If there's a relationship, then the testee has an anxiety disorder.
Disclaimer: I'm Jewish.
Re: Actually a valid point (Score:3, Insightful)
Like so many other "discoverable" attributes, this could easily backfire. If an employer/insurer is ever in such a position to perform a blood test of any kind, there's not a whole lot sitting between your sample, and them acquiring a lot of extra information about you.