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Closer to Human Flight
Posted by
Hemos
on Mon Dec 27, 2004 08:37 AM
from the icarus-here-we-come dept.
from the icarus-here-we-come dept.
negativeblue writes "Dropzone.com has (had) a story about the preparation of a man (Jeb Corliss) who prepares to land a wingsuit without a parachute. If you don't know the current abilities of parachutes, now-a-day, you should do your research. Basically airfoils, they can perform close to an airplane wing (high performance turns and lift)."
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jeb is the man (Score:4, Informative)
Re:jeb is the man (Score:2, Funny)
Closer? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Closer? (Score:2, Interesting)
landing (Score:5, Interesting)
Cool stuff, though. I won't be trying it.
Jerry
http://www.syslog.org/ [syslog.org]
Speed is good (Score:4, Informative)
The more I think about it, the more I think I agree with the parent.
Parent
Re:Speed is good (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Speed is good (Score:5, Interesting)
The term "Angle of Attack" is defined as the angle between the chord line of the wing (a line drawn from the leading edge to the trailing edge) and the relative wind, which is essentially your direction of travel through the air. So for instance, during the landing flare the wing's chord line is pointed up with the rest of the plane but the airplane continues a slight descent, making the angle between the two very large compared to cruise flight where they're both pointed more toward what land-lubbers would call level.
The trick is that as the Angle of Attack increases so does lift... to a point. Every airfoil has a critical angle of attack beyond which airflow separates, lift is destroyed, and the airfoil ceases to work aerodynamically and becomes simply an object sticking out into the wind.
I would imagine that this guy will have to build a great deal of forward speed which will give him a flatter trajectory and therefore a lower angle of attack. He'll then need to raise his angle of attack at the right moment and flare without exceeding that critical angle, which may or may not be anything the engineers who built the suit ever determined. He definety does not want to stall the wingsuit. His life depends on its lift.
I know this guy is doing a lot of testing using gps data, etc. to figure all of this out; but it is exceedingly risky.
I predict this will end bad, though I really hope I'm wrong.
Parent
Re:Speed is good (Score:3, Informative)
He's got a very small wing area so to achieve lift he needs speed, a high-lift wing shape and AoA.
He will likely have a high stall speed. (Note: you stall at an AoA, not a speed. But for a given configuration - weight, wing shape, bank angle, CoG, environment - the stall speed is consta
Re:Speed is good (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
May I be the first to say... (Score:5, Insightful)
Oh well, I guess something's got to thin the herd...
Re:May I be the first to say... (Score:4, Insightful)
Parent
Don't get to close to the sun! (Score:5, Funny)
...er... (Score:5, Informative)
Shouldn't that be wingsuits? I should dearly hope that most people know the abilities of parachutes - they have been a regular plot device in the media for years.
Re:...er... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:...er... (Score:3)
http://www.parachutehistory.com/eng/drs.html [parachutehistory.com]
Like the grandparent said, we've been watching these things in the movies for the last 30 years. The average-joe knows good and well that they are more capable than the round ones most often seen only in World War II movies.
There is a reason (Score:5, Interesting)
Re:There is a reason (Score:3, Interesting)
I'm talking about people who keep jumping on a regular basis. Sooner or later, 00 is going to come up on that Roulette wheel, and the more times you play, the more likely you will eventually hit it.
People like to say "you are more likely to die in a car than in a plane", because lots more people die in car crashes than in plane crashes, but if you spent several hours a da
Re:There is a reason (Score:3, Insightful)
In 2003 there were 42,643 traffic deaths in the US. Using the estimated population numbers from the CIA website that came to roughly
Using the latest sky diving death numbers of 25(the last time they reported) and dividing by the only number I could find as to how many jumped (members of the USPA). It came to a
Re:There is a reason (Score:4, Informative)
Malfs on your main parachute are 1 in 1000 from what I understood. Those are packed up in 5-10 minutes in a rather hurried fashion. Your reserve is carefully packed painstakinly by a FAA certified rigger who spends 30-45 minutes working on it VERY carefully. The reserve is also repacked every 120 days by FAA regulations.
I don't know the stats, but a double malfunction is a VERY rare occurance. It's more than likely "operator error" that causes the death of a skydiver.
Parent
One nasty gust and he's history. (Score:4, Interesting)
Re:One nasty gust and he's history. (Score:2)
Batman!!! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Batman!!! (Score:2, Funny)
*not gay.
suggestion (Score:5, Interesting)
On the other hand, if he did pass the point of no return and went for the landing and overshot a bit, that might be a problem. hmmm.
Water - try landing on water first. Or a mattress - king-size, preferably.
Re:suggestion (Score:3, Informative)
70^2 + 30^2 = 5800.
Square root of 5800? 76.1mph. Pretty sure that's about how fast you're going after 700 feet. Just from memory, I've forgotten a lot of physics. Now, if you think a 700 foot drop into water is survivable.. well... at that point I don't think it matters much if it's concrete or water.
Besdies, have you SEEN one of these wingsuits? Go to birdman.com, they're the market leader. You are NOT going to want to swim in this thing. Especially not w
Is it really flight? (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Is it really flight? (Score:2)
You are correct though that a parachute should be used in case surface winds or other factors change and prevent a safe landing.
Toy Story? (Score:3, Informative)
Reminds me of Gomez Addams... (Score:5, Funny)
...from the Addams Family. Every time he did a jump, he used a smaller parachute. By his theory, eventually he would not need any paracute at all.
And of course, he was correct. Eventually, he would have no need for a paracute...
Human flight? (Score:3, Insightful)
There are a few people that have fallen out of commercial airliners and survived. They didn't have wing suits and fell thousands and thousands of feet.
That's not flying... (Score:5, Funny)
Way cool... nice photos in TFA.
"no one has..survived a landing without a chute" (Score:5, Interesting)
Man Survived 22,000-Foot Fall Out of Bomber [209.157.64.200]
Also:
"The greatest fall without "riding" a piece of wreckage goes to Russian Lt. I.M. Chisov, who bailed out of his Ilyushin 4 bomber at 22,000 feet in January 1942, after being attacked by German fighters. His plan was to free-fall to 1,000 feet before opening his parachute, thus limiting his exposure to enemy fire while still in the air. Unfortunately he lost consciousness on the way down, and never opened his parachute. Like Vulovic, he landed in snow and survived, returning to duty three months later". - link [manbottle.com]
There was also a British gunner from a Lancaster bomber who fell from his aircraft during an attack and was saved by fir trees and deep snow.
That said, I still think this guy's a loon. Nobody ever volunteered to jump without a parachute before.
Re:"no one has..survived a landing without a chute (Score:3, Interesting)
That's not true, either.
I remember seeing a video once of a Hollywood stuntman who jumped out of an airplane without a parachute or "flying suit", and landed on an airbag (not the car kind; the kind that Hollywood stuntmen use for falling-from-a-great-height stunts).
I think that there also have been several cases where a stuntman jumped out of an airplane without a parachute, another stuntman handed him a parachute in mid-air, and the first stunt
Re:"no one has..survived a landing without a chute (Score:3, Funny)
Re:"no one has..survived a landing without a chute (Score:3, Interesting)
Anyone care to confirm?
Re:"no one has..survived a landing without a chute (Score:4, Interesting)
Parent
Re:"no one has..survived a landing without a chute (Score:5, Interesting)
By breaking several layers of glass one by one you slow the body down with a succession of small forces rather than one big one.
Parent
lol (Score:2, Funny)
c00l
surviving falls (Score:5, Insightful)
I don't know whether people have survived "attempts", but you can certainly survive falls from airplanes without a parachute: hitting brushes, trees, water, or snow can break your fall sufficiently so that you don't die. Theoretically, even hitting a solid, hard surface is survivable if you break the fall correctly (but I don't know of any actual cases).
Re:surviving falls (Score:2)
Re:surviving falls (Score:3, Interesting)
- Chissov from russia (1942) fell from 6705 meters (20000 feets) on snow, he was wounded but survived.
- Nicolas Stephen Alkemade (1944) survived a fall from 5490 meters (16500 feets). He landed on a tree and a pile of snow and survived.
I only have a document in French though:
Click here. [www.quid.fr]
Re:surviving falls (Score:3, Insightful)
Probably not. The "best" way I can imagine landing would be to land in a standing position, with your knees locked. You are hoping that the impact energy will be absorbed in your lower body instead of your internal organs, spine, and brain.
Upon landing, the bones in your legs would shatter, the flesh of your legs would be pulverized, and your lower body would basically explode like a blood-filled water balloo
Downer (Score:5, Funny)
article text (Score:3, Interesting)
Why? I couldn't care less about the abillties of current parachutes.
Message from another aviation pioneer. (Score:3, Informative)
You'll get too close to the sun and your wings will melt !!
-- Icarus
This flight has been predicted long ago (Score:4, Funny)
And wow! Hey! What's this thing coming towards me very fast? Very very fast. So big and flat and round, it needs a big wide sounding word like... ow... ound... round... ground! That's it! That's a good name - ground! I wonder if it will be friends with me.
Another DNA tidbit on flying... (Score:4, Funny)
"There is an art, it says, or rather, a knack to flying.
The knack lies in learning how to throw yourself at the ground and miss.
Pick a nice day, it suggests, and try it.
The first part is easy.
All it requires is simply the ability to throw yourself forward with all your weight, and willingness not to mind that it's going to hurt.
That is, it's going to hurt if you fail to miss the ground.
Most people fail to miss the ground, and if they are really trying properly, the likelihood is that they will fail to miss it fairly hard.
Clearly, it is this second part, the missing, which presents the difficulties.
One problem is that you have to miss the ground accidentally. It's no good deliberately intending to miss the ground because you won't. You have to have your attention suddenly distracted by something else when you're halfway there, so that you are no longer thinking about falling, or about the ground, or about how much it's going to hurt if you fail to miss it.
It is notoriously difficult to prise your attention away from these three things during the split second you have at your disposal. Hence most people's failure, and their eventual disillusionment with this exhilarating and spectacular sport.
If, however, you are lucky enough to have your attention momentarily distracted at the crucial moment by, say, a gorgeous pair of legs (tentacles, pseudopodia, according to phyllum and/or personal inclination) or a bomb going off in your vicinity, or by suddenly spotting an extremely rare species of beetle crawling along a nearby twig, then in your astonishment you will miss the ground completely and remain bobbing just a few inches above it in what might seem to be a slightly foolish manner.
This is a moment for superb and delicate concentration.
Bob and float, float and bob.
Ignore all considerations of your own weight and simply let yourself waft higher.
Do not listen to what anybody says to you at this point because they are unlikely to say anything helpful.
They are most likely to say something along the lines of, 'Good God, you can't possibly be flying!'
It is vitally important not to believe them or they will suddenly be right.
Waft higher and higher.
Try a few swoops, gentle ones at first, then drift above the treetops breathing regularly.
DO NOT WAVE AT ANYBODY.
When you have done this a few times you will find the moment of distraction rapidly becomes easier and easier to achieve.
You will then learn all sorts of things about how to control your flight, your speed, your manoeuvrability, and the trick usually lies in not thinking too hard about whatever you want to do, but just allowing it to happen as if it was going to anyway.
You will also learn about how to land properly, which is something you will almost certainly cock up, and cock up badly, on your first attempt.
There are private flying clubs you can join which help you achieve the all-important moment of distraction. They hire people with surprising bodies or opinions to leap out from behind bushes and exhibit and/or explain them at the critical moments. Few genuine hitch-hikers will be able to afford to join these clubs, but some may be able to get temporary employment at them."
-- Douglas Adams, 'The Hitch-Hikers Guide To The Galaxy'
Land a Snowboard... (Score:3, Interesting)
He had a plan to jump from a helicopter, and land on a steep powder field in the Alps somewhere. I think around the time (1994), the record for the highest survived drop on skiis or a board was around 270 feet.
Never heard if he pulled it off or not.
(I heard all this over a few beers in a bar in Chamonix, so I've no idea if theres any truth behind it.)
One thing i think is cool though, is that the speed skiing record is about 75 mph faster than a free-fall sky diver.
Re:So how'd he get down? (Score:5, Funny)
The other joke is:
"What's the difference between skydiving and golf?
In one you go "Whack! Uh oh!" and in the other you go "Uh oh! Whack!"
Parent