Mars Rovers Find More Evidence of Water

loconet writes "Space.com and JPL are reporting that the Mars Rovers might be on the verge of confirming that large amounts of water once flowed in a region of Mars that has looked curiously dry until now. Such a finding could be comparable to their discovery earlier this year of an ancient shallow sea on the other side of the red planet. Opportunity has found lumpy, odd rock unlike anything its seen to date. The rock concentration seems much rougher than the 'blueberries' found earlier on in the mission. Researchers hope to swing by the rock on the way out of Endurance for further study. 'It could just be one big mass of concretions,' Squyres said. 'I just don't know.' Meanwhile, Spirit, which has now climbed about 10 yards up a hillside, getting above the Gusev plain, found an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn'. Both rovers have been exploring more than twice as long as they were designed to last. And even though the Martian winter is at its coldest, engineers are confident that the rovers will continue, despite showing signs of mortality."

In other news,

[La_Boca (201988)]

Martians took over the rover and programmed it with an ominous message:

"Nothing for you to see here. Please move along."

This Headline Is Not for Sale

[dmayle (200765)]

Now, I want to know, is this Longhorn rock a symptom of this? [slashdot.org] And if so, is Microsoft giving money to OSDN, or have they gone straight to NASA to participate in "the growing trend of inserting ads more directly into online content" [wired.com]

It's funny... laugh... Please...?

oh no, its happened...

[civman2 (773494)]

Meanwhile, Spirit, which has now climbed about 10 yards up a hillside, getting above the Gusev plain, found an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn'.

Microsoft now has products on TWO PLANETS! We need to find a rock somewhere and name it Sunbird, quick!

Re:oh no, its happened...

[d474 (695126)]

Meanwhile, Spirit, which has now climbed about 10 yards up a hillside, getting above the Gusev plain, found an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn'.

And in other News...today the Mars Spirit rover, after spotting an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn', experienced a massive failure and is now permanently transmitting back to Earth what is known in the IT world as the 'Blue Screen of Death'.
JPL engineers have tried to correct the problem by renaming the interesting rock to 'Red Hat Linux 8.0'. They have no re

Re:oh no, its happened...

[NanoGator (522640)]

"JPL engineers have tried to correct the problem by renaming the interesting rock to 'Red Hat Linux 8.0'. They have no response from the catatonic rover as of yet."

Sadly, a phone call to Redhat surprisingly turned unhelpful when they suddenly announced they were no longer going to support 8.

So that's where it is!

[by Anonymous Coward]

Meanwhile, Spirit, which has now climbed about 10 yards up a hillside, getting above the Gusev plain, found an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn'.

No wonder it's taken MS so long to get Longhorn out. They've got to haul it from Mars!

I still want to see. . .

[smooth wombat (796938)]

the remains of the parachute and heat shield which were seen in other photos early on.

Yeah, not the most exciting thing but you could send the rover(s) on a long trip to see the remnants and examine stuff along the way.

Checking the remains would provide information for future designs regarding heat shield and parachute technology.

Re:I still want to see. . .

[Devar (312672)]

Although it would be interesting to see, there's no way they'd do it. We can test heat shield technology and parachutes here on earth any day. And it's a proven design anyhow. Sending the rover back to have a look at them wouldn't reveal any scientific data that we don't already know or can extrapolate.

Re:I still want to see. . .

[Zerbey (15536)]

The reason they had planned to visit the heat shield was to see if its impact had turned up any interesting underground material for study.

The plan had been to visit it after studying Endurance crater but they've not mentioned anything about it on the web site for some time now.

Re:I still want to see. . .

[ToshiroOC (805867)]

Opportunity is planned to go to its heatshield after it has finished geological surveys of the Endurance Crater and winter is over - the crater is shielding it somewhat from cooling winds, and since heating the rover to compensate for these winds is very expensive electrically, it is likely that the heatshield will only be seen if the rover survives the winter fully operational and something more interesting outside of Endurance crater hasn't been found.

more evidence...

[Chuck Bucket (142633)]

more evidence [nasa.gov] from a diff perspective. It seems pretty likely now that water *did* or perhaps is even still, on Mars. cool.

CB)(*&^%$

Re:more evidence...

[Jesrad (716567)]

Are the rovers equipped to identify traces of life if there are some around ? Or would that specifically require an entirely different mission ? I know Beagle2 was built for this purpose but the poor thing slept to its death on the way down...

Re:more evidence...

[Lispy (136512)]

Exactly. Beagle was on a mission for life, but the Rovers are a geological lab on wheels. They are unable to search for life. This annoys me now since the mission is on. I really hope NASA will send another rover now that the first ones were such a huge success.

Re:more evidence...

[Chuck1318 (795796)]

I really hope NASA will send another rover now that the first ones were such a huge success.

In today's news, there is a description of research into a next generation rover [msn.com] designed to search for life, which will be tested in Chile's Atacama Desert. It is currently designed only to detect DNA-based life as we know it. This may be good enough for Mars, considering the meteorite-carried exchanges of material between Earth and Mars.

Re:more evidence...

[brainstyle (752879)]

And Arthur C. Clarke believes [space.com] Martian life exists to this day. It's easy to see that the so-called spiders [martianspiders.com] look life-like, and I'd like very much for that to turn out to be the case. Mind you, the human brain is pretty good forming patterns out of just about anything [badastronomy.com].

Longhorn

[Rosco P. Coltrane (209368)]

found an interesting rock dubbed 'Longhorn'.

Sheesh, when NASA works faster than Microsoft, there's a cause for concern...

Re:Longhorn

[nizo (81281)]

I just assumed they named it after a Microsoft product because it was full of holes.

Re:Longhorn

[Shazow (263582)]

"In other news, Microsoft sues NASA over trademark infringement, forcing NASA to change the rock's name from 'Longhorn' to 'Longspire'."

- shazow

Rocks on the Surface

[Launch (66938)]

Isn't it possible, since Mars does not have a thick atmosphere like earth, that rocks that are found on Mars's surface are not nessicarly from mars?

Re:Rocks on the Surface

[sploo22 (748838)]

In theory it's possible, but that's where the geologists come in. I would think that they can analyze the rocks and come to a pretty reliable conclusion as to whether they're meteorites, volcanic, or (fingers crossed) sedimentary.

Re:Rocks on the Surface

[dave420 (699308)]

Atmosphere or not, "alien" rocks can end up on the surface of a planet quite easily. Of course, if the rocks are all uniform, chances are they are local, and not from somewhere far away. The dead giveaway of a meteorite is that it's very different from the rocks around it. (and usually in a hole :))

Re:Rocks on the Surface

[Christopher Thomas (11717)]

Isn't it possible, since Mars does not have a thick atmosphere like earth, that rocks that are found on Mars's surface are not nessicarly from mars?

Anything that fell from orbit would still end up partly melted, probably fragmented, and showing signs of shock and heating from impact in its mineral structure. This is partly how we identify things like the antarctic Mars rocks as being from Mars.

By contrast, conglomerates like the rock found now are weak and brittle, and wouldn't survive re-entry and impact intact. The other sedimentary minerals found have structures that would also have been changed by something as traumatic as falling from space.

So, minerals on Mars that look like they were formed in water, almost certainly had to have formed in water that was on Mars.

Re:Rocks on the Surface

[ToshiroOC (805867)]

Yes, it is possible, but keep in mind that the vast majority of the rocks being observed by the two rovers are bedrock - very large underground formations that have an exposed surface at the surface. Therefore, the chances of bedrock actually being a buried-and-then-exposed foreign body are reasonably slim. If we do find a foreign rock on Mars, though, we would probably be able to tell because we have a general baseline for what the majority of rocks on Mars look like spectrally - and we can be pretty confident that the vast majority of rocks we're looking at on the surface are NOT foreign because there are no impact craters in the sand around them - and many of these rocks are far too large to not have a visible impact crater, if they really were foreign.

Where is all the water now?

[Percent Man (756972)]

This is fascinating news, and seems to confirm many astronomer's / xenogeologist's wildest hopes for the Red Planet. But, and forgive my ignorance, where has the water all gone? The atmosphere is mostly CO2, I believe... so, somewhere, there's a bunch of H2 missing. And whether or not Mars ever supported life, I doubt it ever hosted an ecosystem on a scale large enough to convert that much water. Where'd it go? How'd it get there? Anyone?

Re:Where is all the water now?

[Laivincolmo (778355)]

I think that the leading theory is that the water is locked up beneath the surface as permafrost.

Re:Where is all the water now?

[goatbar (661399)]

How about solar wind stripping? Hydrogen is super light and rapidly ends up at the top of the atmosphere which is being hit by the solar wind (no magnetic field to shield the atmosphere).

That explains things yesterday....

[Lumpy (12016)]

Opportunity has found lumpy

I was wondering why I felt like someone was following me yesterday....

This is not going to help my paranoia one bit.

Scientists say...

[charlie763 (529636)]

that the release of the pictures of the Longhorn rock are delayed and will not be available until 2007.

Ironic

[MikeMacK (788889)]

From the previous story, "Writing Software Worldwide Proves Difficult", it said 23 of 56 people couldn't find the Pacific Ocean on a map, and yet we can find water on other planets. Looks like all the people who got A's in geography work at NASA.

Re:Ironic

[Barlo_Mung_42 (411228)]

Unless of coarse they are still looking for the Pacific Ocean.

Nice!

[The-Bus (138060)]

Finally, more evicence of refreshing, live giving Dasani(TM) on Mars [google.com].

Trace of Dinosaurus Rex on Mars

[denisbergeron (197036)]

This picture of Endurance rook look realy like Dinosaurus Rex feces
http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/missions/mer/images .cfm?id =787
May be this can explain why Dinosaurus was extinguish!

Stromatolite ?

[Jesrad (716567)]

Could that "lumpy" rock be a fossil of a ? [daviddarling.info]

That doesn't quite look like a rock

[dexterpexter (733748)]

I don't know about anyone else, but when I first saw the picture, my reaction was not "Oh, it's a rock!"

In fact, not that I believe it is as such necessarily, it looks like a fossilized organic somethingoranother. The back end looks something like a frog. Now, this is probably proposterous (it is most likely a volcanic-produced rock), but I sure wouldn't mind being (accidentally) correct.

With the casual way that they mention that they *might* go by and check it out, I certainly hope that they do! Of all of the "rocks" that they have studied so far, I think that this one merits a much less casual reaction. I find their treatment of this discovery a bit odd.

Who knows...

Re:That doesn't quite look like a rock

[chris_mahan (256577)]

It would be a lot more fun if the rock wasn't there in the morning.

oh my

[Perianwyr Stormcrow (157913)]

I'm glad you're smart enough to dismiss your observations of a video sent from thousands of miles away as wishful thinking- there are millions that look at that and see God.

Worthwhile

[macdaddy (38372)]

Both rovers have been exploring more than twice as long as they were designed to last. And even though the Martian winter is at its coldest, engineers are confident that the rovers will continue, despite showing signs of mortality."

I'd definitely say the rovers have been money well spent. I'm impressed by how long they've lived past their estimated KIA date. Most impressive. If only more NASA projects could be as successful.

Martian Longhorn

[scottyboy (116119)]

A NASA spokesperson said that the rover was projected to reach the Longhorn rock "sometime in 2005... no wait! 2006... um... 2007?"

Screw water -- where are the killer DNA bacteria?

[IronChefMorimoto (691038)]

Screw this "NASA found water today" and "Spirit discovered more water this month" and "scientists believe there's water in this rock" crap.

When is NASA going to bring back a sample of killer DNA bacteria back to Earth from Mars, clone a fast-growing horny chick in a glass box, and then let her loose to find the first guy to fuck hard and nasty before ripping his groin in two with her alien scissor legs?

'cause I'm waiting on that kind of woman, and I think it'd be a great way to go out in a blaze of...wait...never mind. I'm a computer nerd with a gut, pale white skin, and a rash that we won't talk about here. She'll be hunting a prime specimen with whom to sow her seed.

Back to Far Cry and /. news. Sigh...

IronChefMorimoto

JPL link

[chaosmage42 (716255)]

I think the JPL press release the link i sposed to point to is here [nasa.gov]

Does it have to be water?

[Tokerat (150341)]

Everyone is so excited about the possibility of liquid water on Mars, but has anyone considered that it might be some other type of liquid? Something with different properties that would explain the odd patterns?

This article [nasa.gov] intrigued me, but why is everyone so focused on water? Could the carbon dioxide or some other atmospheric gas be condensing in the cold north to form the odd runoff channels on the rock. This rock faces away from the sun and would therefore be one of Mars' coldest points. Could that be why there is little other than carbon dioxide in the atmosphere? Could wind erosion and perhaps even blast shockwaves from meteorites have been causing the errosive-looking paterns in such an enviroment? With the atmosphere being lighter, wouldn't meteorites hit harder and more frequently than Earth? Finally, can we draw any similarities to our own moon's surface, a place which we know much more about?

(I ask because I have no idea)

Re:Does it have to be water?

[ToshiroOC (805867)]

The Mars Odyssey mission found water within a meter of the surface in many places on Mars. Aeolian (wind) erosion processes are noticably different from water erosion processes (at least, that's what the geologists say - I won't pretend I can tell the difference myself just looking at something). Carbon dioxide freezes into a solid and then sublimes - liquid CO2 requires very high pressures, and the Martian atmosphere has a pressure some 1% of earth's. Other possible liquids such as methane require significantly colder temperatures to condense than what are available on Mars. Meterorite impact frequency isn't a function of atmospheric density - just they'll burn up less before hitting the ground, and then, yes, hit harder - but blast shockwaves aren't going to create the 'razorback' structures found in some of the cracks of the rocks at Endurance crater. Also, elements in the correct ratio to be particular salts are being found in the rocks, and some of these salts are known as ones that would be carried in water. We can draw similarities to the moon, but not many - again, aeolian processes will influence martian geology strongly, and there is no atmosphere or carbon dioxide ice or water ice on the moon (minus some possible craters, look up DoD/Clementine's recent moon imaging).

After Galileo, battles still to fight

[panurge (573432)]

The thing I find seriously interesting is that so much effort has to be put into demonstrating the presence of water on Mars. Starting from the philosophical standard we apply to most things, we would expect to find it there (we live on a planet, it has water, it has life, why would we not expect to find it on the next planet out?)

I have a feeling that we are still fighting Galileo's battle. A particular strand of Christian thought - medieval Aristotelianism - is still making the running. Aristotle, on no particular evidence, thought that the planets were perfect, lifeless and unchanging - the Schoolmen adopted this as dogma - and scientists and engineers at Nasa are still trying to demonstrate that we occupy what is probably a very ordinary little planet, with a very ordinary set of dominant life forms, against people who think we are unique and very important in this huge universe. You know who you are.

You can still see the lens of Galileo's original telescope, which actually destroyed Aristotle's ideas for anyone with an open mind. I hope one day someone brings the Mars Rovers back to Earth, perhaps along with the Hasselblad left on the Moon. They are signs of a human achievement bigger than the Pyramids, St. Peter's or the Great Wall of China - and an achievement which is under threat from fundamentalists, whether Islamic or Christian. I still find it amazing that the country that has produced insitutions like NASA and Woods Hole has places that mandate the teaching of Creationism, and I find that far more worrying than a survey that suggests that only a minority can find the Pacific.

Re:Funny messages

[Laivincolmo (778355)]

The rovers are taking some wear from the martian environment. At one point I heard that one of the wheels on one of the rovers began experiencing more resistance to moving. I suppose the dust and dirt are begining to clog and gum parts up on the rover.

Re:Funny messages

[EddieBurkett (614927)]

Anyway, what does the article mean by "showing signs of mortality"? I haven't heard anything about this except for the initial mishap they had when they had to reprogram one of the rovers.

Reading the article, my guess is this is what they were referring to:

During the briefing researchers added that Spirit's twin, Opportunity, is suffering from a jammed drill.

Re:The way the tin foil hat crowd will see it...

[AKAImBatman (238306)]

So that's [nasa.gov] where the Beagle ended up!

Re:The way the tin foil hat crowd will see it...

[teamhasnoi (554944)]

Anyone with two eyes and half a brain can plainly see that.

I've only got one eye, you insensitive clod!

.^(

Re:Winter on Mars?

[throughthewire (675776)]

Sorry , but you can't have the whole planet in winter.

You could if there was no tilt to its axis of rotation relative to its orbital plane.

Mars, though, tilts about the same as Earth - 25 degrees or so. But its orbital eccentricity has a 19% variance, versus Earth's 2%. The 'Southern Winter' is much longer and colder than the 'Northern Winter,' and the whole planet is colder. The Martian Southern hemisphere experiences much greater temperature variance than any point on Earth.

Seasons on Mars [msss.com]

Re:What about the mysterious slashdot rock?

[golgotha007 (62687)]

The entry in the afformentioned website was posted after the slashdot story broke. its obvious intention was to get free advertising on Slashdot.

In fact, this is the third story I've seen today with an advertisement for illuminedgaming.com

Re:um, WHY?

[Artifakt (700173)]

Why will the rovers fail?
Here's the likelyest causes.
1. The solar cells accumulate dust and their efficiency reduces.
2. Heating and cooling cycles cause micro-fracturing of the crystals in those solar cells. Their power production decreases for sure, AND the cracks increase how much dust clings to them, so if #1 isn't a problem, it possibly will become one.
3. Flexable materials will outgass some of their lubricants and plasticisers. Plastic parts are particularly vulnerable to multiple combinations of therm