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Cassini-Huygens Reaches Phoebe

Posted by michael on Fri Jun 11, 2004 12:20 PM
from the bulls-eye dept.
Space Science
Anonymous Explorer writes "The Cassini-Huygens probe is set to fly by the largest outer Saturn moon of Phoebe today. Cassini will be roughly 2000 km from the surface of Phoebe at 1:56 Pacific time Friday, June 11. Thats pretty darn close. The newest images of Phoebe are already thousands of times better than the previous ones taken by the Voyager 2 mission in 1981. Phoebe is interesting in that it maintains a retrograde orbit around Saturn. This has lead to the hypothesis that it is an ancient asteroid that has been captured by the gravitational pull from Saturn. Phoebe may provide some important insights into the composition of early building blocks of our planets. Phoebe was discovered in 1898 by American astronomer William Pickering. As always, discussion about this mission can be found at #cassini on irc.freenode.net."
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Cassini-Huygens Reaches Phoebe 50 Comments More /

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  • Google search, "define: retrograde [google.com]"
    • You mean for those of us that don't speak english, right? Think retroactive or something. There's ålenty of words using retro. Figure it out from the context. It's not that hard.
    • For those of you who want a bit of information, check out this link on retrograde motion [encyclozine.com], which does an excellent job of explaining what retrograde is. For those who are curious but too lazy to click, some of the interesting info is given below:
      # Venus rotates slowly in the retrograde direction.
      # The moons Ananke, Carme, Pasiphaë and Sinope all orbit Jupiter in a retrograde direction, and are thought to be fragments of a single body that Jupiter captured long ago. Many other minor moons of Jupiter orbit retrograde.
      # The moon Phoebe orbits Saturn in a retrograde direction, and is thought to be a captured asteroid.
      # The moon Triton orbits Neptune in a retrograde direction, and is thought to be a captured Kuiper belt object.
      # The planet Uranus has an axial tilt which is very near to 90, and can be considered to be rotating in a retrograde direction depending on one's interpretation.
    • I like how it is specified in the article lead to "maintain" a retrograde orbit. As in it hasn't changed ... yet.

  • Parking (Score:5, Funny)

    by tedgyz (515156) * on Friday June 11 2004, @12:27PM (#9399677) Homepage
    Hmmm, that deep crater looks like a good place to park the Millenium Falcon while we wait for that Star Destroyer to leave.

  • Wow (Score:5, Interesting)

    by Mick Ohrberg (744441) <mick.ohrberg@gmail.TOKYOcom minus city> on Friday June 11 2004, @12:28PM (#9399690) Homepage Journal
    This is just amazing. We're really reaching further and further out in the solar system. And not just by blindly sending probes out there, but by consciously seeking to get close to other bodies in the solar system, and really finding out. I really hope I get to see the Europa landings in my lifetime.

    • you set yourself up (Score:5, Funny)

      by proj_2501 (78149) <mkb@ele.uri.edu> on Friday June 11 2004, @12:30PM (#9399737) Journal
      don't you humans get the message? what part of "ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE" is hard to understand?

      • Re:you set yourself up (Score:5, Funny)

        by lpontiac (173839) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:49PM (#9400002)
        It's about as hard to understand as "CONGRESS SHALL MAKE NO LAW" :)

      • Re:you set yourself up (Score:5, Funny)

        by Tackhead (54550) on Friday June 11 2004, @02:34PM (#9401250)
        > don't you humans get the message? what part of "ATTEMPT NO LANDINGS THERE" is hard to understand?

        Something always gets lost in translation. That's what's hard to understand. For instance, here's the original:

        YOU SET YOURSELF UP.
        ALL THESE WORLDS ARE BELONG TO YOU EXCEPT EUROPA.
        YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO LAND THERE MAKE YOUR TIME.

    • Use Celestia to preview the image quality (Score:5, Informative)

      by Rei (128717) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:50PM (#9400012) Homepage
      I'm really excited about the new photos... I hope they release full res mosaics and don't delay... pre-processed surface texture and heightmap data would be nice, too.

      If you want to get an idea of just how high res pictures they're going to get, do the following:

      1) Download the program "Celestia". Build and run it.
      2) While it is building, pull up the last picture that Cassini took of Phoebe.
      3) When Celestia comes up, full screen it.
      4) Go into the configuration and tell it to include full details. Exit the configuration menu.
      5) Press enter, and type in "Phoebe". Press enter.
      6) Press 'g' to go to Phoebe (note: Phoebe is currently false-texture in Celestia, since we don't know much about it)
      7) Middle click and hold down, and drag the mouse until you're at a distance of 658,000 kilometers.
      8) Press ctrl-'+' to zoom, until the resolution of Phoebe that you're seing on the screen is about the same as that in the NASA picture (note: resolution, not size. The nasa picture is enlarged).
      9) Without changing the zoom, hold middle click againa nd drag the mouse until the distance is 2,000 kilometers.
      10) Hold down shift, and use the arrow keys to look around. That's the sort of resolution images that they should be able to get.

      Impressive, isn't it? I can't wait! :)
      • And there's plenty of other important causes you could be contributing to besides filling your belly with Budweiser and buying batteries for your remote control. You could be solving the problems of world hunger right now, but instead you spend all day working in an office, you callous bastard. I'm disgusted at your inhumanity. Next you'll be telling me that there's more than one worthwhile endeavor on earth, or that the quest for knowledge is one of the fundamental characteristics that distinguishes mankin
      • Your entire list of "issues" is made up of items that are entirely social in nature. Humankind could solve every single one of these if we could just put aside our petty differences and decide to do it. "Physician, heal thyself"

        Space research is truly the last frontier. The knowledge derived from it lifts all humanity even if only from the perspective of giving us a glimpse into what all of us alive today will never see. Once a spacecraft leaves our planet it become research in it's purest form.

        Fixing

  • More about Phoebe (Score:5, Informative)

    by JaF893 (745419) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:30PM (#9399734) Journal
    Here are some links about phoebe and the Cassini-Huygens:
    Phoebe [wikipedia.org]
    Cassini-Huygens [wikipedia.org]
  • That moon looks like one of my recent attempts at Photoshop :S

    mmm gradient shading :)

  • When it's actually arriving (Score:4, Insightful)

    by david.given (6740) <dg.cowlark@com> on Friday June 11 2004, @12:35PM (#9399811) Homepage Journal
    Look, guys, saying that it arrives at '1:56 PST' is bloody useless. Apart from the fact that Pacific Time is largely meaningless to most of the world, you don't even say whether that's morning or afternoon!

    Having scoured the web sites --- it's actually quite hard to find the information --- the probe is doing the close flyby at 2056 UTC (i.e. about two and a half hours from now). Assuming I've got the daylight saving compensation right, of course...

  • Saturn has billions of "moons" if something that small (137 miles?!?) is considered one. The composition of the rings alone makes up a ton. So why is this one more interesting than others?

  • Anticipation (Score:5, Informative)

    by amightywind (691887) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:51PM (#9400024) Journal

    The newest images of Phoebe are already thousands of times better than the previous ones taken by the Voyager 2 mission in 1981.

    No, but it is hoped they will be. At best, the newest released images are 10x better than Voyager. Expect the high res images later today. You are getting ahead of yourself.

  • Captured asteroid? (Score:5, Informative)

    by barakn (641218) on Friday June 11 2004, @01:03PM (#9400160)
    This has lead to the hypothesis that it is an ancient asteroid that has been captured by the gravitational pull from Saturn

    Phoebe is actually believed to be a captured Kuiper Belt object (KBO). This means its composition might be very icy/organic, making it more like a non-active comet than an asteroid.

  • Where are the RAW Images! (Score:4, Insightful)

    by Jboy_24 (88864) on Friday June 11 2004, @03:42PM (#9401923) Homepage
    One of the greatest things about the Mars rovers page, is that you don't have to wait until NASA releases "press release" images in order to see the latest. You can access them through the mars rovers RAW images site probably a few hours after NASA got them.

    I havn't seen any links to such a database for Casinni, but I really hope they set one up soon!

    • Re:No Different (Score:5, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward on Friday June 11 2004, @12:26PM (#9399656)
      Phoebe's mission is no different than many other probes

      If Cassini confirms your theory that Phoebe is a probe, I think that will be a very valuable insight. It will mean there are aliens that were building probes long before us, and they could build probes that are hundreds of miles wide.

      • Re:No Different (Score:2, Funny)

        by Anonymous Coward
        "If Cassini confirms your theory that Phoebe is a probe, I think that will be a very valuable insight. It will mean there are aliens that were building probes long before us, and they could build probes that are hundreds of miles wide."

        Like Uranus? -- Sorry.. had to.

    • Re:No Different (Score:4, Insightful)

      by FluffyG (692458) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:27PM (#9399683)
      Many people have that same idea about NASA and its exploration, that it will not give any valuable insight or information regarding the universe. I would like to think out of all of the mysteries of earth, space is the biggest one. Hopefully one day there will be valuable insight and information that will support a need for NASA besides pictures and samples of surfaces that wont even make it back to earth for a more indepth examination. These probes may gather the specific information the scientists are looking for but maybe something new can be found from looking and studying it in person, and perhaps some new tests could be created that could give us the valuable insight we seek.

    • Re:No Different (Score:5, Interesting)

      by monkeySauce (562927) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:28PM (#9399691) Journal
      How can you possibly determine what is or isn't valuable information before it's even discovered??

      Granted there are never any guarantees, but the Cassini probe is going to be over 1000 times closer than previous probes. You never know what it might discover.

    • On the contrary (Score:4, Insightful)

      by lockefire (691775) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:29PM (#9399719)
      On the contrary, the phoebe probe will give us extremely valuable insight into the creation of our Solar System. In fact, it already has in that it is cratered (albeit, not seen as a major discovery to most people). Scientists have wondered for years how it managed to only reflect 6% of the light hitting it. In addition, since this may be a Kuiper object, it would be the only (relatively) stationary one within reasonable range from Earth to study.
    • Phoebe's mission is no different than many other probes that were promised to give valuable insight into the building of the univerese. Many other probes have promised the same thing but we have not yet seem the information. Although, I must admit it the information it will collect will probably be extremley interesting, however it will not give valuable insight.
      Uh... yeah. What he said.

      BTW, you don't work for the Alexis de Toqueville Institute, by any chance, do you?

    • While I would have to agree that it seems as though if you've seen one moon, you've seen them all, it still adds value for the Cassini probe (not Phoebe, but I understand what you are hinting at) to explore Phoebe.

      And yes, it is very possible that something unexpected will be seen. That would indeed give valuable insite. Even if it is just an ordinary hunk of rock, it will still give insight into the composition of other Saturnian moons and what to expect in that region of the solar system. Even as just a simple data point. It is expected that even more will be found, and frankly I look forward to visually exploring this world in a way that nobody until today has been able to see it like.

      When the Voyager probes went by Io, there was no hint that it could possibly be showing active volcanoes, or be hinting at the distinct possibilities of seeing liquid oceans on Europa (admittedly buired under ice, but still there). I don't expect such a revelation with Phoebe, but you don't know. Perhaps a black monolith with proportions 1 x 4 x 9?

    • Re:Two objects on the picture (Score:4, Informative)

      by youknowmewell (754551) on Friday June 11 2004, @12:35PM (#9399807)
      That is actually Phoebe on both sides. The right one is a picture of Phoebe 13 hours after the left one. it takes Phoebe only 9 and a half hours to make a full spin on it's axis (It has 9 and a half hour days). Those are two different hemispheres.
      • You know, I was going to post "the first person to make a reference to 'friends' gets smacked with a wet noodle."

        But I was too late.

        -sigh-

        I hate that show, and am convinced that it only suceeded because it ran after the simpsons.
    • It's happening right now. Exciting times ahead. Better pay attention to it, 'cus this is something you'll be telling to your (grand)children.

      See X-prize.

    • Not Point, At This Point (Score:5, Insightful)

      by EXTomar (78739) on Friday June 11 2004, @01:33PM (#9400561)
      Its lovely how there are cries of privatizing space and how we'd get to the stars faster if we only let regular joe mega corporations build spaceships. There plans go something like the familar pattern we've seen all over the place in /.

      1. Privatize Space Exploration
      2. ????
      3. Profit!!

      Right now there is little to no incentive for a company like Lockhead-Martin to build system to land people on the moon and build a moonbase. Science is a terrible profit motive unless you can find practicle applications. And since we know the moon isn't made of cheese (which you can sell) or littered with diamons the size of footballs no company has this burning desire to go into space. Its too costly to make money at it.

      So we are stuck with government ventures. I'm glad the US, Russia, and China push these things but I have no illusions about how this works. They are doing it because their is a small bet of prestigue and a good way to spend military for R&D without making it so obvious.

      So until you find out that Pheobe is made of 99% gold or Mars has rubies the size of boulders or something else interesting there is little point ot privatizing space over having world governments fund it. Simply put, governments don't care about profits.
        • Yeah, bought and paid by the government. Lockhead-Martin will not go to the board and say "we think we can make money landing on the moon". They will go to the board with "we can make money selling a moon landing system to the government".

          You find a public/private non-government entity that is willing to buy a moon landing system from LM and I'll conceed the point. Right now, there is no profit in deep space. Period. There is no modivation for investing capital in "noble causes". Its sad but very tru

    • Re:Question (Score:3, Informative)

      by wwest4 (183559)
      Phoebe is really far from Saturn. Also, there may be some gravitational slingshotting in the course (not sure how severe, since Phoebe's mass is small) so the path to saturn may not be a straight line in the geometric sense.

    • Pictures start coming down to the ground tomorrow morning and are dowloaded all day. Right now Cassini is busy taking pictures so it can't point it's antenna at Earth. And the pictures will take all day to download because even though they are using an antenna as tall as a 25 story building, so still can't get a very high data rate transmitting at 80 W from 10AU.

      After that they will take some time to process, but when they are released they will either be at www.ciclops.org or saturn.jpl.nasa.gov.

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