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Build Your Own Saturn V

Posted by michael on Fri Oct 31, 2003 08:16 PM
from the hope-the-parachute-opens dept.
Toys Space
Illbay writes "Space.com has a great story about a company in Colorado that has introduced an incredibly detailed scale model of the Saturn V rocket booster that flies a lot like the real thing! Apogee Components has "taken the time to research the actual vehicles and then used that information correctly in creating the kits," with a scientist from the team that designed the Delta 2 rocket on staff. I remember the old Estes model rocket version of the Saturn V back in the 60s, but they were not very detailed and very difficult to get to fly properly. Looks like Apogee might have a winner."
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  • Scale (Score:4, Funny)

    by momerath2003 (606823) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:19PM (#7364419) Journal
    Standing more than 62 inches (1.6 meters) tall and weighing about three pounds (1.4 kilograms) at launch, the most detailed reproduction of a Saturn 5 readily available today is 1/70th the size and 1/2,166,666th the weight of the original.

    "It's just a matter of scale as far as the rockets are concerned. The laws of physics don't change,"

    Try telling that to a 2-atom-wide model rocket.

    The laws of physics are a tad different on the quantum scale. ;-)

    • Re:Scale (Score:3, Interesting)

      by drinkypoo (153816)
      The question is, how many atoms in size does your model have to have before you have something recognizable as a Saturn V, whose design can carry out all the basic functions of a Saturn V? We're talking about multiple stages of rocket here, with propellant, and so on. (The site is pretty slow so I'm not interested in all the details.) The model uses solid rocket engines, so your model can too within the purposes of this question.

      The model might end up being less than 100 atoms across, though I doubt it. I

    • Re:Scale (Score:4, Interesting)

      by pVoid (607584) on Saturday November 01 2003, @12:15AM (#7365320)
      It's just a matter of scale as far as the rockets are concerned. The laws of physics don't change

      The laws might not change, but the constants in the equations do. Specifically, air is much 'more viscous' for a model, after all, if the model is 1/70th the scale, then the atmospehere it's going in should be 1/70th of a bar.

      Also the drag coefficient of everything doesn't scale properly. It's really a question of scalability, and I think the IT crowd of all people should understnad that.

  • Very interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

    by edmz (118519) * on Friday October 31 2003, @08:19PM (#7364422) Homepage
    I'm not much of a fan of rockets nor space flying history, but this quote from the saturn 5 page [apogeerockets.com] got me quite interested:
    The sound waves could easily pulverize a human's skeleton if he was unlucky enough to be within a mile of the launch pad. Even at further distances, the sound waves felt like someone was thumping on your chest with their fists.

    • Re:Very interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

      by EvanED (569694) <evaned@[ ]il.com ['gma' in gap]> on Friday October 31 2003, @09:13PM (#7364705)
      Yep. As with the Shuttle launches, the noise is actually what makes the safe distance 3 miles, not anything having to do with the rocket exhaust.

        • Re:Very interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

          by imsabbel (611519) on Saturday November 01 2003, @05:07AM (#7365889)
          200db is a energy density of about 100 MW/m^2.

          This will kill you in a few milliseconds.
          140db->deaf after a hour or so
          160db->deaf at once
          180db->danger of internal injurie, blood vessel ruptures, ect
          200db-> RIP
          This ofcource is only true if this noise level is reached where you are. If the 200db are 1meter below the thrusters, and you are 250m away, you may only get 150or so and still be alive and kicking.
    • The sound waves could easily pulverize a human's skeleton if he was unlucky enough to be within a mile of the launch pad.

      Ummm... they do know the Saturn V launched manned missions, right?
    • I wish things were the 60's again:

      1. We shot rockets to the moon (whose side effects could apparently kill you)
      2. We had really powerful pesticides like DDT (although it could kil you too.)
      3. We had extra heavy and powerful cars like the dart that really did intimidate (although getting into a simple crash could kill you).

      Apparently everything tended to build character in those days. It's a testament I suppose to the advancements in technology that we don't 'build character' as much anymore ;)

    • Re:Very interesting (Score:5, Interesting)

      by mraymer (516227) <.mraymer. .at. .centurytel.net.> on Friday October 31 2003, @10:09PM (#7364934) Homepage Journal
      In fact, according to History Channel's show Modern Marvels, the only man-made sound louder than a Saturn V at liftoff is the detonation an atomic bomb.

  • World's first (Score:5, Funny)

    by Rosco P. Coltrane (209368) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:21PM (#7364430)
    Standing more than 62 inches (1.6 meters) tall and weighing about three pounds (1.4 kilograms) at launch, the most detailed reproduction of a Saturn 5 readily available today is 1/70th the size and 1/2,166,666th the weight of the original.

    "It's small step for man, a giant step for Mini Me" -- Dr. Evil

  • what a troll (Score:4, Funny)

    by segment (695309) <silNO@SPAMpolitrix.org> on Friday October 31 2003, @08:21PM (#7364436) Homepage Journal

    And I was getting all hot under the collar thinking about maybe pulling up in my model Vue tomorrow with 24's spinning, music flaring, DVD's behind the sear in a pimperrific three piece fohsachee suit, and you're talking about a rocket.

    I thought you meant the car damnit

  • Not for long (Score:5, Informative)

    by igabe (594295) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:23PM (#7364452)

    URGENT NEWS ABOUT MODEL ROCKETRY!

    The new Homeland Security Act has many provisions that threaten rocketry in the United States. Both small rockets and high power models are affected. We need your help to make rocketry legal again. Please write your State's Senator now. Click Here for more information. [apogeerockets.com]

    If the video on that page becomes slashdotted, go here [space-rockets.com]

  • Why build your own Saturn? (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    They're affordably priced little cars. I'm sure buying the parts just costs more, and people haven't been building cars themselves for nearly a century.

  • Mirror (Score:2, Informative)

    by mrwonton (456172)
    Here's [umich.edu] a mirror for you

  • Model Rocketry Is In Trouble (Score:5, Informative)

    by MountainLogic (92466) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:26PM (#7364473) Homepage
    The office of home land paranoia is really doing it's best toshut down this kind of hobby. See here [space-rockets.com] for more details.
      • first of all it's from New Zealand and secondly it's not a rocketpowered device - it's pulse jet powered (ie it's a V1 not a V2).

        Modern hobby rockets (like I and many others fly) do one thing well (and not even that) - they go up. We have wonderfull guidance devices called 'fins' they make things go straight provided they are fast enough and there's still air around - even then you're at the mercy of the wind, the jet stream as you pass thru it (yes we do) etc etc.

        In other words hobby rockets don't hav

  • I wonder how many of us geeks will click add-to-cart tonight?

  • Reasons why I'm not impressed: (Score:4, Interesting)

    by cmowire (254489) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:29PM (#7364489) Homepage
    1) Solid rocket engines. They have made Peroxide+Gasoline rocket engines in small scale. Use one of them. At the very least a pressure fed John Carmack special [armadilloaerospace.com] style engine.
    2) One stage. The Saturn V has 3 stages. This one, and all of the injection-molded toys before it, were only 1 stage. Where's the fun in that?
    3) Injection molding. Where's the work in that?
    • Well to paraphrase a rather sad movie "you call that [apogeerockets.com] a rocket, .... this [taniwha.com] is a rocket

    • Obviously you're not a model rocketeer:) There are several reasons for using solid rocket motors in this kit:

      1. This kit (I'm assuming; can't get to the site:) is aimed at non-high power certified members of the NAR (National Association of Rocketry) and TRA (Tripoli Rocketry Association). Non-solid non-premanufactured engines are not allowed for these classes of member at events sanctioned by either, and using them on your own is a good way to get your insurance cancelled. At Level 1 certification in eith
    • One stage. The Saturn V has 3 stages. This one, and all of the injection-molded toys before it, were only 1 stage. Where's the fun in that?
      Hmmm... The 3 stages of the Saturn V are disposable and have no recovery chutes. Seeing your $225 rocket return safely as a $12 command module.... Where's the fun in that?
  • I remember the good ol' days of rocket launching, always a blast; Estes was awesome back in the day. Have any of you seen the movie October Sky, that was an excellent film. Anyways, they had all kinds of scale rockets, and planes, nowhere near this detail though, but fun none the less.

    • Re:Good ol' rocket days (Score:4, Funny)

      by xyote (598794) on Friday October 31 2003, @10:58PM (#7365094)
      See the movie October Sky? We were shooting steel pipes into the sky in those days (pre Estes). You took a keen interest in where those suckers came down. Mostly suger and salt peter fuel (hint don't cook this up in your kitchen unless you think soot from premature combustion is a nice decorative motif) but we had an Explorer post sponsored by IBM with geek IBM engineers as advisors with unlimited buget. Bad idea. Dialog right out of Real Genius. "Oh, don't breath any of that zinc powder. It's microgranulated and highly toxic". "Yeah, your finger will stick instantly to the strain gauge if you touch that new instant glue Kodak just invented. Let's get the razor blade and unstick your finger." "Aieeee...".
  • I remember getting the Estes Saturn V kit around 1971. Not detailed ? How about cutting long balsa rods exactly to spec then gluing them together to form that steel lattice work at the top of the rocket. That's detail. I never managed to complete it cause it had about 841,231 pieces. It also took about $5 in engines which in 1971 was a lot of money for a kid. LouSir
  • I was one of the rare few that tried (repeat TRIED) to build the Estes Saturn V kit. It was incredibly difficult, even if you weren't 9 years old like I was. It was almost impossible to cut and roll the little paper cones just right. And that escape tower lattice made from little toothpicks, yow, I just couldn't get it right. I put it in the closet where it gathered dust, and was eventually dumped by my parents. I recently learned that original Estes kits, even partially assembled ones, were being bought fo
    • Oops, in retrospect, I guess it was the Saturn 1B kit because I remember gluing together the multiple tubes in the first stage. I don't think Estes even made a SatV model, just the Sat1B. The 1B was a way cooler rocket anyway. The new company makes both, and none of those lame multiple D engines, just a single F or G engine.
      Oh the rocket memories this brings back. But if I built it, it would probably be just like the most complex kit I ever built, the Estes Bomarc. I spent weeks making it absolutely perfect
      • I've still got a Saturn V kit in my closet (just checked, and yes that's what it is). It's about halfway built, but apparently has survived the past five years fine. Is it really worth anything?

        On the other hand, I now seem to have more than enough time on my hands to finish it. Maybe I'll bust out the ole' glue tube out again. And put some in a bag.

        (inhales deeply)
        -Brett
        • Is it only 5 years old? IIRC, it has to be one of the original 1970s kits to be worth anything. If it's 5 years old, it's probably still in production and thus less valuable. But put it up on eBay and see what you get. Or better yet, finish it, but not with the multiple Estes D motors, which were almost impossible to light simultaneously, rip that crap out and put in a mount for a single G engine.
          Anyway, the coolest rocket I ever built was also the last kit I ever built, a very simple design of a 2-stage ro
    • I caught the site coming halfway back up, and before that I got a 500, so I'm thinking it's genuinely slashdotted. That's okay, it'll still be in older stuff tomorrow.
    • A friend at school actually completed one. We took it out to the launch pad, and launched. It went up perfectly. But the 'chute never opened, and it came down just as perfect. *Straight* down. It accordianed to only one foot in height.

    • Re:I NEED one of these (Score:5, Funny)

      by l810c (551591) * on Friday October 31 2003, @10:00PM (#7364903)
      I remember this one well, even though it's been 30 years. I actually finished it. It took me a couple of weeks.

      We brought it down to the field at the end of the street. When it launched, it quickly shot up to about twelve(yes 12) feet and begun spinning in circles wildly in place at first then right towards us. Just missed my brother as he dove behind the dirt mound that it slammed into and shattered all my hard work.

      Probably my poor construction that caused the misfire. And what a range of emotions in those few quick moments:

      Surprise -> Scared Shitless -> Elation -> Sadness

      Speaking of the Sadness after the crash, I just thought I'd mention this as I just remembered and it made me laugh again. A few years later my brother got into model airplane building. These things were a Ton of work. He brought his plane down to the elementary school as they had a nice wide open space. About 15 seconds into flight it banks left and smashes into a tree completely wasting it. He builds a second plane, back to school, 15 seconds, smashes into side of school.

  • Build your own Saturn V cheaper! (Score:5, Funny)

    by tsangc (177574) on Friday October 31 2003, @08:46PM (#7364581)
    http://shop.lego.com/product.asp?p=7468 :)
  • Look at this toy r/c jet aircraft [ehobbies.com] they make. I wonder how well its jetfan engine works. Has anybody tried one?
    • Not like that. I have flown scale lear jet kits that had ducted fan engines that were gas powered. However, at $15 a gallon for the special fuel, it got expensive and I went back to prop jobs that used regular ole 2-cycle fuel (gas with oil mixture like you put into your chain saw).

      This was like 10 years ago, the engines were a tad bit under powered and expensive. I think that plane took about 5 months and $6000 with engines and all to put together. It flew fine, but couldn't do any fancy manouvers.

    • a real jet takes air and compresses it and explodes it with a fuel mixture.

      that said, there *are* RC jets. They're hideously expensive and tempermental and so fast as to be very difficult to fly. Only extremely experienced fanatics can build and fly them.

      This company [microjeteng.com] builds actual micro jet engines.

  • well last time it was tried they did [moonrace2001.org] (the american's wimped out :-)

  • Still good in the rerun (Score:4, Interesting)

    by poptones (653660) on Friday October 31 2003, @09:14PM (#7364709) Journal
    This is a really old story. I don't recall if I read it here or on ars, but I first read about this thing a really, really long time ago (like maybe July, 2002?)

    Anyway, it's worth the trip to follow the links to the website of the people who make this thing. There are some fantastic MPEG clips of flights of this model that (were, maybe not are) available for download.

    Why is it so cool to watch a model fly? Check it out and see. The thing is so big nad heavy it "lifts off" just like a "real" rocket. None of this 3-2-1 disappear in a puff of smoke. You actually get several frames of liftoff before it really picks up speed... very cool.

  • This explains it (Score:2, Funny)

    by Anonymous Coward
    So, this is what Apogee have been up to... now we know why Duke Nukem Forever is taking so long.

  • scaled servers (Score:3, Funny)

    by skydude_20 (307538) on Friday October 31 2003, @09:38PM (#7364829) Journal
    even their servers were built to a minature scale, not the big real machines needed for a good ol' slashdotting...

    mirrors please?

  • booster models (Score:4, Interesting)

    by igny (716218) on Friday October 31 2003, @09:57PM (#7364890) Homepage Journal
    I would be interested in a working 1:60 (~1/60^3 in weight) model of the most powerful launch vehicle in the world [energia.ru]. Imagine:

    Standing ~40 inches (1.0 meters) tall and weighing about 10 kilograms (quite chubby) at launch...

    If the scale doesnt matter in laws of physics one can expect a useful payload to be ~ 100t/60^3 ~ 460grams ~ 1 pound to be launched to low orbits, and about 100 grams to the geostationary orbit, and about 150 grams to be sent on the lunar mission trajectory.

  • how about a 1x scale version (Score:3, Interesting)

    by ksheff (2406) * on Friday October 31 2003, @10:09PM (#7364935) Homepage

    NASA needs something to launch big heavy payloads into space. The shuttles are ok, but a unmanned vehicle would be extremely useful for shipping new sections to the ISS or a hubble replacement.

  • Rocket Simulation Software is also available (Score:3, Informative)

    by shancock (89482) * on Saturday November 01 2003, @04:50AM (#7365851)
    I've been into model rocketry for about two years now with my 12 year old son. It is great fun for both of us. Like most other hobbies, it can be approached from many levels with equal enjoyment. We got the rocket simulation software (Rock Sim) from Apogee last year. It allows you to build model rockets on the software (3D) (using standard parts from hobby stores) and test their flight and return to earth (just as important in models as in real rockets). You can then save and print out the details. There is a demo available on Apogees' site.

    Our problem has been in finding good places to launch. We get rained out alot from local rocket club launches and its hard to find places to shoot on our own. We sometimes sneak over to nearby schools with their large playgrounds early on Sunday mornings to launch. Risky in post 9/11 USA.

    Going to local rocket club launches is also fun. Not only can you shoot your own rockets off but you can watch the big and experimental rockets launching.

    A good source of beginner rockets and hybrid motors for the big boys is Pratt Hobbies. www.pratthobbies.com.

    • Re:Scaling it up?? (Score:3, Funny)

      by Anonymous Coward
      so if we could blow it up,

      Now ain't that an unfortunate choice of words!

        • Re:blueprints are not lost (Score:5, Funny)

          by adeyadey (678765) on Saturday November 01 2003, @06:52AM (#7366056) Journal
          To quote that article..

          In years past, rumors have abounded that in the 1970s the White House or Congress had the Saturn 5 plans destroyed "to prevent the technology from falling into the wrong hands".

          That seems doubtful -- it would be a formidable terrorist group that decided to build a Saturn 5 to wreak havoc on the world, or build a lunar base..

          There is only one such group. Picture Blofelt sitting in a chair stroking a cat. "Ah, Mr Bond, we've been expecting you.."

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