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Long Computer Sessions Could Cause Blood Clots
Posted by
timothy
on Tue Jan 28, 2003 11:57 PM
from the wait-for-the-lawsuits dept.
from the wait-for-the-lawsuits dept.
kac5 writes "The Australian reports that extended stints in front of the computer can cause blood clots to form such as those that occur from Deep Vein Thrombosis. Researchers have named it e-thrombosis (what is it with naming everything to do with computers e something?). So /.'s get up out of your chair, slowly so not to make your body go into shock, and walk to the other side of the room and back. Now do that every hour and you should be right according to this article!"
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Nooooo! (Score:4, Funny)
Re:Nooooo! (Score:5, Insightful)
He wasn't pregnant or elderly, but it would be interesting to know how many other risk factors the guy had.
Was he a smoker? Was alcohol involved? Was he getting enough water to drink? Was he overweight? Did he have any history of heart or blood conditions?
Even for frequent economy-class fliers, this is a rare problem. Most people at least flex their toes and ankles while at the computer, don't they?
Parent
caffeine is the cure! (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Leg shaking? (Score:3, Interesting)
On a serious note, I've got that annoying habit where I shake my legs when I'm sitting still... I wonder if that will actually protect me from DVT?
Re:Leg shaking? (Score:3, Funny)
Re:Nooooo! (Score:5, Funny)
Absolutely. How else could I handle that third keyboard and mouse?
Parent
Re:Nooooo! (Score:5, Funny)
Obviously not.. because if he was a smoker he'd be getting up and going outside to smoke every hour or so.
Parent
Damn (Score:5, Funny)
Karma burning
If that's the case.. (Score:5, Funny)
coming in February (Score:5, Funny)
Also look for gThromb, kThromb, gtkThromb, gnuThromb, and ThrombCurses for Linux and UNIX.
Parent
Manditory Python Reference (Score:3, Funny)
Great! (Score:5, Funny)
makes sense.... (Score:5, Insightful)
Re:makes sense.... (Score:4, Interesting)
And you know what else? If you're worried about it... get a dog. Nothing like a minimum of 3 trips outside to walk the dog to get you off your ass and moving around a bit (at least for those who live in the city).
Parent
First Stroke! (Score:5, Funny)
Actually, I might have a stroke after I see how bad I get modded down for this comment....
why is this news? (Score:5, Insightful)
Haven't we always been told to get up and away from the computer at regular intervals?
And why would sitting at a computer be any different to sitting in an aeroplane seat or sitting in ANY seat for that matter?
If you sit for too long you'll probably become a fat bastard and have a stroke.
it wasn't the worm! (Score:3, Funny)
Are there other ways to prevent this? (Score:4, Insightful)
won't do jack for strength, but it sure will look nice, and should keep the blook flowing through the muscles.
btw - I hear that those things do bad to your skin, does anyone know the straightdope on that aspect?
and before anybody start, yes browsing porn will probably another method, but only good for (one of) your forearms.
I would type something relevant... (Score:5, Funny)
Pretty Obvious (Score:5, Funny)
I hope these researchers didn't have a big grant.
Jason
ProfQuotes [profquotes.com]
In defense of Everquest (Score:5, Funny)
It's sad that people need medical proof before they would even consider getting up a few times a day instead of sitting at a computer for 18+ hours straight. Back in the day, we called that common sense.
Re:In defense of Everquest (Score:5, Insightful)
The only possible explanation I can think of is that there's a lost of history-rewriting going on so we can get around the simple fact that people do a lot of stupid shit, knowing full well that it's stupid (and not caring). "Why did you smoke if you knew it was bad?" "Oh, I didn't know - the evil tobacco companies lied to me!" "Why did you sit in front of your computer for 16 hours a day?" "Nobody ever told me it was unhealthy!" Much better than the truth, which is often "I knew it was bad for me, I just didn't care."
Parent
In Defense Of Thinking (Score:5, Insightful)
Good point. People in general seem to expect to be told everything they need to know, rather than going through any effort to figure it out for themselves. "Oh, sitting on a plane for six hours is bad for me; but sitting in front of a computer for six hours is okay!" Or, as you pointed out, "I'm coughing up my lungs, but smoking must be okay, because no one's told me otherwise!"
This may be why we have lawsuits like the McDonalds "I'm suing because you made me fat" suit that a judge recently dismissed. When you hear someone say, "I didn't know because someone else told me," just think: that's Darwinism in action.
Parent
Re:not new suggestion (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Hard numbers (Score:4, Interesting)
OK, all of us here are going to die from blood clots while our arms are aching from carpal tunnel syndrome...
What I'd really like to see is some general data on roughly how many hours (per day or per week) people are spending in front of a computer to get symptoms like these, and after how many years.
Is it because it's 'too random to judge accurately' or something like that? Or have they (meaning 'people smarter than myself') just not narrowed it down yet?
Driving and other things (Score:3, Interesting)
The article says that the man would sit at his desk for up to 18 hours a day. Perhaps we can try to convince employers to allow chair racing in the hallways.
I had a blood clot from sitting at a computer... (Score:5, Informative)
During that week, my right leg just hanged down off the edge of the chair all the time. Eventially I noticed it started to swell by my caff, and it hurt real bad. After a few days it was the size of one of them long watermellons, and deep purple colored. I went to the doctors, and sure enough it was a fairly large blood clot logged under my knee (where my leg was bent on the chair all day). The impaction from sitting at the chair all day caused the blood circulation to slow, resulting in a clot forming. It's a lot like a snowball effect, a little clot forms, and more and more platelets attach to it.
Once the doctor did an ultrasound on my leg and confirmed it was a blood clot, I was in the hospital for about 5 days with an IV drip of blood thinners. They came in about every 3 hours to take blood from me to make sure my platelet level was fine (don't want to thin the blood too much.) After the 5 days I went home to bed rest for about 6 weeks. During that 6 weeks I had to transition myself off the IV blood thinners to a pill called Coumadin. The only way to transition were shots of the stuff in the IV about twice a day in my stomach. Not very fun. I had a nurse come by the house once a day to take blood to check to make sure the levels were good.
During that time, the doctors kept telling me that if I felt in pain in my head, chest, or trouble breathing to call 911 immediately. Blood clots are very serious. If it breaks away and moves through the blood stream, it can clog somewhere in my body causing a heart attack, stroke, or pulminary embalism. It was funny, because the first night I was home, the nurse told me all about that, and kept saying, "And if you don't call 911 immediately you could die!!!" in this real strict voice. Then she took my blood pressure. "Your blood pressure it too high!!!" My father pointed out she had just scared the hell out of me hehe.
Anyhow, after the 6 weeks, I pretty much had to learn to walk again since my muscles were very weak. I had to wear funny stockings on my leg to make sure it keep my circulation good, and had to continue taking coumadin for about a year and a half. I had to wear a special medical alert bracelet because if I were in a car accident, it would alert EMTs that I'm on Coumadin, meaning any bleeding injuries wouldn't clot themselves anymore because of my thin blood.
It takes a very long time for the body to absorb a blood clot, so during that year and a half I had to make sure I paid attention to any chest pains, and not passed them off as heart burn. Also, during that year and a half, I had to go into the doctors office twice a week and have blood drawn to check my platelet levels. Not very fun, I looked like a drug addict from all the needle marks.
So, safe to say, I pay attention to how long I'm sitting, and how my legs are. I occastionally stand up and take 10 minute walks when I'm at work. I try and tap my food, or move my leg when sitting to keep blood flowing down there. My doctor also told me to pick up some horse chesnut extract. Apparently its been shown to help increase blood circulation. Due to the severe swelling in my leg, its now bigger than the other one pretty much perminately. The veins are also noticably bigger when I exercise. Also, the type of chair you sit in plays a big role. I make sure the chair I'm sitting in has plenty of padding and comfortable around the under paid of my knees, and that my legs don't hang off the edge, rather I'm low enough my feet touch the ground and support my leg.
The only good thing I say I got out of this I had plenty of time when I was in bed to learn C.
Re:I had a blood clot from sitting at a computer.. (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Information (Score:5, Informative)
Coumadin attacks the vitamin-K-dependent clotting factors (factors 2, 7, 9, and 10) where they are manufactured in the liver. This is why coumadin takes a bit of time to take effect. Heparin is much more immediate, but requires close monitoring of the Partial Thromboplastin Time to ensure adequate anticoagulation. However, there is a different preparation of heparin, called "Low-molecular-weight heparin" that is preferred, since you don't have to monitor it, and as a result it's often used in the outpatient setting to treat DVTs.
The factors that contribute to DVT formation are stasis, injury (I've seen a DVT from being hit in the leg with a baseball), and hypercoagulable state (blood is too thick, or platelets are too sticky). The more factors you have, the greater your risk... but sometimes it's not simply additive. For instance, young women that smoke AND take birth control pills (both make you hypercoagulable) are at greatly increased risk for clots... those two particular risk factors seem to have a synergistic effect.
Most geeks should not get these... Pulmonary Emboli are rare in healthy people. However, if you get a big one (a so-called "saddle embolus") it can turn you out like a light. In the case of large emboli, "clot buster" thrombolytic drugs ARE used, but usually only on a truly unstable, dying-in-front-of-your-eyes patient. Clot buster drugs are NOT benign, and can cause strokes, and uncontrollable bleeding. You'd hate to fix a guy's emobolus, only to have him die from an intracranial bleed. There's a reason those drugs are given very cautiously.
Certain genetic susceptibilities also exist that can make you prone to DVT/PE. Protein C, Protein S, Antithrombin III, Factor V, just to name a few (I'm not a hematologist). If someone in your family gets an unexplained DVT, your doctor will probably be checking all of these and more. If a first-degree family member has one of these that is abnormal, you might consider getting your own blood checked.
one more thing... I have to take issue with the name "E-thrombosis"... sheesh. Why couldn't he just call it a Pulmonary Embolus? Then any doctor would know immediately what he was talking about... God save us from neeto buzzwords.
Parent
Yeah ok, (Score:4, Interesting)
Here's what you do: you have to stop every four hours of sitting and do some stretches, and take a 10-15 minute walk OUTSIDE.
I used to be a PCB designer, which involves moving the mouse and clicking A LOT, with very little keyboard interaction. Instant tendonitis. The solution was to get those hand grip spring thingies, every 15 minutes I'd stop and do 15 grips per hand.
What happens is that mousing is an incomplete movement, the tendons and muscles stay in a low state of tension, which is unnatural and prevents circulation.
Stretching helps promote circulation.
I recommend the same for all computer jockeys. Some stretches, some walking. Hey I'd recommend a gym and some weights, but this IS slashdot...
If e-thrombosis is a separate condition... (Score:5, Funny)
And how would you locate the clots in the first place? By ultrasound, of course. Gotta ping 'em!
That is why... (Score:5, Interesting)
Speaking from first-hand experience (Score:5, Interesting)
I needed a liver biopsy (not fun) and six months on blood-thinners and twice-weekly blood tests.
At the time the doctor couldn't explain a cause, as I was way younger than people who usually get this, but now it makes perfect sense, as I'd been doing a lot of dawn-to-midnight programming in a very comfy new chair...
Water. Exercise. Got it.
most interesting... you had a PVT? (Score:3, Informative)
If your clot was in the portal venous system, a sedentary lifestyle should have had absolutely nothing to do with that particular thrombosis.
So they never came up with anything? Most people that get PVTs have cirrhosis (probably why they did the liver biopsy), some kind of intraabdominal infection... something.
Check out this article [emedicine.com]
What you had is extremely rare in normal people...I'm not presuming to tell you what to do; your doctor knows you better than I do. Still, you might consider following up on it sometime, just to make sure everything is kosher.
nice name (Score:5, Funny)
Doesn't apply to us (Score:5, Funny)
I mean, the three-some sex alone with our model girlfriends is a workout in itself, but I guess lesser people wouldn't be able to keep up.
I use a Mac... (Score:4, Funny)
Which is safer? (Score:3, Funny)
a) Sitting in front of the computer for 20-odd hours a day, risking Deep Vein Thrombosis, or
b) Going outside for a walk and risking being mugged, shot, stabbed, hit by a car, kidnapped, or abducted by aliens. And let's not forget the unpleasant effects that prolonged exposure to solar radiation can have on your skin.
Absurd (Score:5, Insightful)
First, it has absolutely nothing to do with computers, just with sitting.
Second, yes, people sit in front of computers more often now than they used to, but I think it's less a "sedentary lifestyle" and more a "productive lifestyle." People sit at desks a lot longer than they used to for other reasons, too. I've got Ibanking friends who are at work, at their desks, for at least 16 hours every day, except when they have occasional presentations. They're being productive, not sedentary.
You have got to be kidding (Score:3, Informative)
The word sedentary is derived from the Latin sedentarius -- the present participle of the verb "to sit." There is this thing called a dictionary, use it. Yes, they are available online, but guess what, they also comes as books. You remember books don't you? I shudder to think what your life was like before computers.
I won't even touch the "more productive" assertion, because on
The long and short of your tirade is this: you can sit and be productive. The two processes are not mutually exclusive. Duh.
BTW, my brother lives in Wellesley just down the street from Babson. He needs someone to shovel his walk and mow the grass. You can supplement your "non-sedentarian," yet somehow still "sitting" lifestyle if you wish.
Question (Score:3, Funny)
The Australian reports that extended stints in front of the computer can cause blood clots to form such as those that occur from Deep Vein Thrombosis
How about if I use 2 computers ? Will it cause blood clots ?
How about 3 computers ?
How about 4 ?
.
.
.
How about 100000 ?[typing with one hand on chest]
How about 100001 ?
How about 100002 ?
.
.
.
How about 100945 ?
How abo
I Developed DVT (Score:5, Interesting)
The doctors asked if I had been on an airplane recently as this is often seen in people who sit in cramped positions for long periods of time. I had not. But I was working as a low-level NOC monkey. Combine that with my computer activities post-work and you have pretty much the same thing minus the cramped aspect. But the doctors seemed to discard that theory.
Just to sew the story up, I took self-administered shots of Fragmin for about 2 weeks and then coumadin/warfarin (blood thinners) for about 8 months. The Fragmin is necessary because the warfarin will cause blood thickening when starting off so the Fragmin counters this. I should mention that Fragmin is incredibly expensive ($50/ea shot, 2x a day IIRC) so not having health insurance would have really sucked.
But the only thing I can think of that would have caused it is long hours at the computer. Of course it might have had a genetic origin but I've never heard of anyone in my family having it.
You can read this and other health facts... (Score:4, Funny)
It's true. I should know. (Score:5, Informative)
I program long hours. I'm generaly considered to be fit and healthy. I've gained a few pounds since I got married a few years ago, but I'm certainly not overweight.
I started a company last year that relies heavily on my development efforts. I knew better, but I still spent 15-20 hours, 7 days, every week for three months. That gradually dropped to 12 hours a day, but no less.
In October 2002, I went to the ER for some pain in my calf. They did an ultrasound on my leg and then decided that they would hospitalize me for three days to see how I would respond to high amounts of Coumadin they then gave me. The injections made my stomach look like someone beat me repeatedly with a crowbar. Pricks. According to my doctor, if I'd left it any longer, I risked death, plain and simple.
The Coumadin I take now is in pill form, and the doctor says I will be on it for another six months or so. I get blood tests weekly (and I am so sick of being poked and prodded) but my INR is steady, though I think kept balanced only by the meds.
These days I walk more. I code just as much, but until my company can afford to hire someone to replace me, there's no way around that... But I've managed to train myself to at least stand up and stretch every 20-30 minutes, and I move about every hour or so.
It sucks. Period. I recommend just avoiding it in the first place.
If this is the case.... (Score:3, Interesting)
Sometimes I pray for a heart attack. Or a pen in the eye.
Is this really news? (Score:4, Informative)
Our tiny 20 desk operation took half a day to assess - I'd hate to have to do it in a call centre!
I'll wait (Score:5, Funny)
Knowledge of the Ancients (Score:3, Funny)
Euripides: Well of course they are you idiot. Get up and move around once in a while why don't you? Sheesh, slaves these days are such incredable doofuses they don't even know how to take care of themselves.
Diores: Oh bless you master! I never thought of that, who would have even thought that moving around for a bit now and then would be advisable?
Euripides: Well, I guess that's why I'm the genius and you're the slave, eh? It's no wonder we conquered your pansy assed people.
So this scene need not be repeated in *another* few thousand years let me spell it out for you people. It's common knowledge that if your work keeps you sitting for long hours you should get up and move around for at least a few minutes every hour. If it keeps you on your feet for long hours you should sit down and take a rest for at least a few minutes every hour.
Geez, ain't modern science grand?
KFG
Wait a minute... (Score:3, Interesting)
Re:Why Avoid Alcohol??? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent