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Thief of Time
from the take-your-pills-first dept.
As always, attempting to explain the plot behind a Prachett novel is ... difficult. Lemme do the best I can: In Discworld, where the series takes place, Time is a resource that is managed by the Monks of History. They store, divvy it out and generally make it so that the world has enough time. However, outside forces are trying to stop Time, by constructing the Discworld's most perfect clock -- if the clock starts ticking, then the world will stop.
Our heroes include one of the preeminent cleaners from the Monks of History, his young "grasshopper," Susan, the Granddaughter of Death, oh, and the fifth member of the 4 Horsemen. And I nearly forgot the Son of Time. Or Sons. Or something like that. Yes, it's a Prachett novel at it's best. Also make regular appearances are series perennials DEATH and DEATH OF MICE. Personally, I've never been a huge fan of DEATH OF MICE, but I do find DEATH to be one of the best characters.
Plot of this particular book aside, here's the lowdown on the Discworld series -- it's satire. Yes, Virginia, even in this day and age of heavy cyncism, there's still good authors writing satire. In the past, the Discworld series has dealth with such fun issues as freedom of the press, gender relations, international relations, the telephone/telegraph/internet and role of government. The thing that's fun about the Discworld series is that Prachett's usually right on, at least from my point of view. Thief of Time is a look at that resource that everyone in our day and age claims to have not enough of, and is scrambling around for. While Prachett's satirical devices can be a bit cutesy at time -- some of the Monks of History parts, in particular, I thought were a bit over the top -- the underlying point is still the same: people create the sense of time deprivation around us. We are the ones responsible for making ourselves feel like we don't have time.
Beyond just our own interactions with time, the main anatognists in the book, the people behind the scenes, also have a serious issue with human life and all that entails. In dealing with them in the book, I get the feeling that Prachett is trying to tell us to wake up and smell the morning coffee. Being human is pretty darn cool, and we should appreciate all the crazy stuff that's around us, and enjoy life.
The Discworld series is not written for those with a dour sense of life or themselves. This, and the other books in the series are easy reads, and don't take long to go through -- but you are almost always guaranteed to laugh out loud at least several times. And somehow, despite the humour, he still manages to make a point about life, and lampoon what's around us. And hopefully the next book will have Captain Carrot.
You can purchase this book at Fatbrain.
Actual List of Pterry's novel molds (Score:1)
The Watch Books: Guards! Guards!; Men At Arms; Feet of Clay; Jingo; The Fifth Elephant; The Truth (to a certain extent, although in a way it is not a Watch Book).
The Witches Books: Equal Rites; The Wyrd Sisters; Witches Abroad; Carpe Jugulum; Lords and Ladies; Maskerade.
The Death Books: Mort, Reaper Man, Soul Music, Hogfather, Thief of Time.
The Rincewind Books: Colour of Magic, Light Fantastic, Sourcery, Eric, Interesting Times, Last Continent.
The Other Books: stuff that doesn't fit into any of the above, but is still part of the discworld ouvre...notably: Small Gods, Moving Pictures, Pyramids, The Truth.
Then there's the Other Other Books...notably, Good Omens.
-d.
a) it's the death of RATS. (Score:1)
I've been getting concerned with pratchett's recent books, which have been more and more along the lines of "look! I've introduced something into this world which is permenant!" as opposed to his previous discworld books which were "Let's introduce an outside concept which we're familiar with into the world, play with it, satirize it, and the have the characters eradicate it because they know deep down that their world is supposed to be there like it always has been so that people can dream about it". moving pictures is an example of the last one, the bit where the clacks towers were introduced is my most frustrating example of the first.
I've always like Death, and I've been growing to like Susan more and more. Ronnie, the fifth horseman is very nifty as well. This novel particularly interested me because I've always wondered about the history monks, especially after Small Gods. I can't wait until they release the rest of his books to the States...it's driving me nuts waiting for them piecemeal, and it's so fscking expensive to get them from overseas...
thanks for letting me rant...and damn you for reviewing it before i got a chance.
----------------------------------------------
Yeah, I just finished "The Truth"... (Score:2)
Also, did anyone reading "Thief of Time" get the theme song to Bard's Tale III: Thief of Fate stuck in their head? I did... "dum-dum-dum *dum-dum-dum!* dum-dum-dum..."
Pterry signed my copy... (Score:1)
And if he's lurking (as he's known to lurk, at least on alt.fan.pratchett)... WELL DONE!
Your Working Boy,
- Otis (GAIM: OtisWild)
Re:Go British (Score:1)
- You'd think enough of us would have bitched by now that they'd have gotten the clue, but no, they went from interesting but not great covers to FSKING UGLY ones.
As PTerry pointed out when I saw him speak a couple of weeks ago and this question was asked -- A number of different covers have been tried on the books in the States, and the fact of the matter is, with the current covers, more books are being sold than with any of the other covers. And no matter what they look like, you can't argue with sales.There are other things that could account for this, but they're harder to nail down for the publisher than something concrete like a graph showing covers on the x-axis, and sales on the y-axis. If the book publishing industry is anything like the music industry and the the movie industry in these united states, well...
Re:You call *that* a review? (Score:2)
Among other styles - there's a bit very like the Lankhmar books, and another Pern-like bit. But yes, anyone who picks up one of the first two and decides its ok but a bit lightweight ought to try a later one before rejecting them.
> the "Mandala" is clearly derived from the Mandelbrot set
Maybe. But it's also derived from a mandala.
http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?mandala
"1 : a Hindu or Buddhist graphic symbol of the universe"
> Death is a fun character, but he lacks personality by his very nature.
That's not entirely true - there's quite a bit about how the anthropomorphic personifications do pick up personalities because they are anthropomorphic.
Death says (or thinks) at one point that it's a good thing _he_ hasn't ever changed, but that doesn't mean it's true.
--
Go write 1000 times on the blackboard... (Score:1)
I SHOULD WARN READERS WHEN I AM ABOUT TO SPOIL A BOOK
And no, I'm not going to make it worse by pointing out where you spoiled it, but you spoiled it big time.
And it's not the death of mice, it's the Death of Rats. Does this [paulkidby.com] look like "mice" to you? SQUEAK!
And while on the s ubject of Death's sidekicks, Quoth has to be mentioned. "Croak" (read the book and you'll understand why the quotes).
It should be mentioned that this Carrot fellow Hemos mentions is part of the Ankh-Morpork City Watch, which has been masterfully portraied in Guards! Guards! and Men at Arms, as well as the more recent The Fifth Elephant.
About Prachett's books it has to be said that there are two publishing companies printing the hardcovers, one at each side of the pond. One is Doubleday (Transworld Publishers) and the other is Harper Prism. One of them sucks and the other is pure joy. It's a matte r of lenghtly discussions which one is which. Another source of discordance is Paul Kidby [paulkidby.com] vs Josh Kirby [abandonart.co.uk] as the cover art artist.
And the for dessert, pay a visit to L-space [lspace.org].
That's how Lem and a lot of Russians did it (Score:1)
Heinlein is also a master at this, particularly when he confronts a theocracy.
Re:Has Pratchett read Adams? (Score:1)
Although I can do something similar, thanks to a friend - look at this message [douglasadams.com], where Douglas asks who wrote it, and then this message [douglasadams.com] where the author explains that he wrote it, DNA didn't, and it was in part inspired by "The Lost Continent" by TP. He also mentions how it became attributed to DNA.
Tim
Re:Has Pratchett read Adams? (Score:2)
That was not written by Douglas. It was written as an article for h2g2.com by a guy using the nickname Orinoco, and he admitted some of it was inspired by Terry Pratchett's writing. I know this because I edited the article before it went live on h2g2.
The original is here [bbc.co.uk].
If I was really wired and used IMAP for my email, I'd be able to include the text of the email DNA sent round the office saying something like "Who wrote this? It's funny, but it wasn't me, and people think it was."
But I'm not and I don't, so I can't.
But it's true.
Sorry.
Tim
Kick Ass, High Quality (Score:1)
This one did not disappoint.
Re:You call *that* a review? (Score:3)
Re:Spoilers (Score:1)
I'm now going to put in some actual spoilerspace before discussing why I believe the review was a spoiler...
some
text
that
hopefully
will defeat
the lameness
filter
foo
However, if you're reading the book, and you got to the bit where you find out that Time has a son - the first thing you wonder is *which* of the two possible characters is the son. There's no inkling that "both" is a possibility -- and it's very clear (once you do find out) that you were never *meant* to guess it - it's supposed to come as a surprise. If you've read this review, you've heard "son (or sons)" and so you *know*, consciously or not, that "both" is a possible answer. It is a legitimate spoiler.
Stuart.
Spoilers (Score:2)
"And I nearly forgot the Son of Time. Or Sons. Or something like that." - you just gave away the most carefully-kept secret in the whole book! First off it's not even revealed that Time has a son until a long way into the book, and even after that, Pterry is VERY careful to avoid hinting at plurals until Lobsang is actually about to meet Jeremy: "He's your brother" is the very first time we find this out, and up until that point one of the major items of suspense is *which* of the two actually is Time's son. Nicely spoilt, without any warning whatsoever.
I'm pretty sure that the fact that the clock will stop time is also not given away until later in the book, and I'm not entirely sure about the Fifth Horseman either.
I'm just glad that I'd read the book before I read this review, or I'd be mighty pissed off.
Stuart.
Re:Damn, its not fair (Score:2)
Well. To quote a reliable source (and to stick a header on this because /. won't let me post all-caps and is ruining the gag:
THERE IS NO JUSTICE. THERE'S JUST ME.
Re:Spoilers (Score:1)
Until you EXPLICITLY spilled the beans, there was no inkling what exactly the reviewer meant by "Son or Sons". Good job of doing exactly what you were bitching about.
Re:Go British (Score:2)
On Amazon.co.uk pricing: I don't know that I've found the shipping to be "a bugger" at all. Seems every time I've ordered, the shipping has been pretty much swallowed up by the exchange rate. Sure, I end up paying the equivalent of US cover price instead of the "standard" 30% discount from Borders or Amazon US, but cover price for a good cover is easily worth it even if you aren't a raving loony. At least that's what the voices keep telling me.
Not fair, but not for your reasons.... (Score:3)
I am sad to see Mr. Adams gone too, but his handful of books were largely rushed at the end. In particular I wanted to throw the last Dirk Gently book out a nearby window when I got to the end and it tied up a mystery in 3 pages without bothering to tell ME clearly what the solution was (I'm not dense, if it was obvious to anyone I have no clue how). He had a great sense of a scene and humor, but not of novel writing.
Pratchett, on the other hand, knows how to plot a book. Beginning/Middle/End, tension/release, etc. He does an excellent job. Sometimes his plots or characters end up a bit thin, but I can only think of one or two of the 26 Discworld books that I felt I had to *work* at reading, and the vast majority of them have been complete joys to read.
Bottom line: it's quality, not quantity, that counts, and Pratchett manages excellent quality, in many cases surpassing any of Adams' work.
Re:Cartoon! (Score:1)
If someone's too lazy to read a book, why would they want an introduction to Pratchett?
---
Damn, its not fair (Score:1)
Sigh.
Re:Damn, its not fair (Score:1)
And his characters while somewhat enjoyable as well, with a few exceptions, are just cardboard cut outs. I mean Carrot - oh he's devoted to the service, and he's tall, but was raised by Dwarves, pretty much tells you everything. Vimes -- he loves his work, but is grouchy! I mean, these are stereotypical characters at best.
Now that I've slagged off on him, I have to say he has a great way of turning a phrase... its like the Taco Bell of fantasy/comedy writing.
I did love Good Omens though.... maybe he should write everything with Gaiman.
My favourite book in the discworld series. (Score:1)
So If you haven't read Pratchett before, go do so now! You will not regret it. I love his humour and especially all his cool footnotes riddled all over the books. I can't remember which book it was in, but one book has 4 lines of normal text and the rest of the page is one footnote
Every time a new book by Pratchett is published I grab a copy ASAP and lock myself in my appartment and read it from start to finish non-stop.
Re:Actual List of Pterry's novel molds (Score:1)
Rick
Re:Damn, its not fair (Score:3)
1. The Watch Books: Vimes, Carrot, Nobby, et al, usually more urban-centric with murder mysteries and politics.
2. Rincewind and the Wizards. OK, Rincewind might be just a leetle derivative of Artur Dent, but his adventures with TwoFlower are a lot of fun. Also, the other wizards are hilarious... Pratchett has nailed every elite group of pompous men (*cough*Slashdot*cough) in their portrayal.
3. Granny Weatherwax, Nanny Ogg, Magrat, Agnes, et al. The Lancre Witches are some of the most interesting and well-developed characters in any series I've read, especially Granny.
4. All the other books. There's Death, Mort, Susan Sto Helit, Pteppic, Gaspode, C.M.O.T. Dibbler and plenty of other characters that aren't directly related to the other three groups.
Of course, members of more than one of these groups always show up in any book, but's great to see the characters evolve, interact in different permutations, and watch Discworld blossom as a razor-sharp parody of our own crazy world.
If that's the work of a hack then I should win a Nobel Prize.
Re:Dang! (Score:2)
Well, brace yourself since there are going to be a number of discworld releases in short-order, including the first Discworld childrens novel.
Think PTerry has finally got back to the 6 month release schedule he used to maintain.
EZ
Re:The Science Of Discworld (Score:2)
--
An Absolutely Amazing Book (Score:4)
Basically, in the 20 or so previous DiscWorld books, Pratchett has built a very rich and detailed history through the events of the characters. However, as would happen with almost any author, there are small timeline mistakes and such that creep into the series, which very devout fans love to point out on USENET.
Thief of Time starts with the explanation of an event in the past of the DiscWorld that caused the Timeline to crash (which explains all the little inconsistancies, since it had to be patched back together). Since then, it's been up to the Monks of History not to merely record history as it happens, but to ensure that history continues to happen at all!
Main characters in the book are Lu Tze (a History Monk patterned after Lao Tzu), Susan Sto Helit (Death's grand-daughter), DEATH, Lobsand Ludd (Lu Tze's apprentice), and The Auditors.
Anyone who enjoys the sort of satirical humor that was present in Hitchhiker's Guide should check this out, and then read the rest of Pratchett's work.
More information about Terry Pratchett and his works can be found at
- L-Space [lspace.org]
- alt.fan.pratchett [google.com]
or any number of other online resources.Project ELF [projectelf.com] - Anonymous Distributed Filesharing
Re:Best Pratchett's put out in a while... (Score:2)
As far as the internal monologue goes, sometimes this is bcos the character _is_ complex. Carrot for instance appears whiter than white, but certain scenes (killing Cruces, the end of Fifth Elephant) show that good doesn't always mean nice (the classic line of "Pray you never meet a good man. He'll kill you without a word."). And an internal monologue for Granny Weatherwax, who's essentially nasty but knows she has to be good, would be mindbending! IMO, adding any kind of internal monologue to the Patrician was a mistake - he's another character who should just _be_ and you work him out from what he does.
I'm quite a fan, but sometimes the humanist bits get a bit tiring when they're forced down your throat. Reading a few back-to-back, I'm come away on a couple with the distinct feeling of the same theme in different clothes. Maybe Pterry should be forced to re-read his last dozen books every month while he's writing a new one, then he won't be tempted to re-use themes!
Grab.
Pratchett on Adams (Score:2)
I felt a dull sense of betrayal by the universe, myself.
Re:Shouldn't that be (Score:2)
Re:Damn, its not fair (Score:2)
Don't you mean Death of Rats? (Score:2)
It is not Death of Mice but Death of Rats
(Critical mode)
Um.. I enjoyed the book..
The plot unfortunately jumps about a bit halfway in a slightly distracting manner but otherwise it is a typical pterry Discworld book.
(Perl mode resumed)
Go British (Score:2)
Solution: buy your copies from amazon.co.uk [amazon.co.uk] instead. The shipping's a bugger, of course, but a Pratchett purist will appreciate the trouble spent.
You call *that* a review? (Score:4)
Thief of Time is the twenty-sixth book in the seemingly neverending Discworld series of books by Terry Pratchett. Initially, these books were a parody of "Conan the Barbarian"-style fantasy, then evolved into satires about pop culture and contemporary politics, and eventually developed a peculiar knack for murder mysteries and cosmic crises of metaphysical proportions. Thief of Time is about one of these crises.
Susan Sto Helit, granddaughter (by adoption) of the anthropomorphic personification Death, has been trying to preserve her sense of humanity ever since she discovered her family history. Previously, in Hogfather, she was a governess; she's now taken the next logical step into elementary school teaching. But Death hasn't forgotten her, nor her usefullness in situations involving the Auditors.
The Auditors are grey, shapeless, nameless beings who have been harassing Death for some time now. Their self-appointed job is to keep things neat and tidy in the universe, and life in all its shapes and forms is exactly the opposite of that--unpredictable, nondeterministic, and full of intangible things like love and hope. They want to do away with it, but can't through direct intervention. And Death likes life, because without it he's out of a job. But he can't directly intervene, either. So he calls on Susan to help out.
This time, the Auditors are attempting to re-create a special clock--one that can measure the "cosmic tick" of the universe and trap Time herself within it. Stop time, and you stop change, preserving the universe in a tidy and calculable form that the Auditors can enjoy. There's even a clockmaker in exile from his Guild, a man by the name of Jeremy, who's uniquely suited to building such a device.
Susan's not the only one trying to find Jeremy before he can build the clock, though. The Monks of History, last seen behind the scenes of Small Gods, have been taking care of time for... well, it doesn't matter how long, shuttling time away from where it's not needed and adding it to where it is, all across the Disc. They were responsible for restoring history the last time a clock like this was built (and broke), and they're determined to keep it from happening again. The trouble is, it's hard to find a clock that can stop time before it's even built, and it's harder to stop it after it's started working....
Thief of Time will delight geeks because of its well-disguised references to chaos theory (the "Mandala" is clearly derived from the Mandelbrot set), quantum mechanics (the "tick of the cosmos" = Planck's constant), and the movie "The Matrix" (the monks can "slice time" to move ultra-fast, and know more wacky-sounding martial arts than an entire Jackie Chan film festival). You don't have to know the references, fortunately, because Pratchett has to explain them in such a way that his own mythology can interact with it. But knowing where his ideas come from makes the book that much more fun.
The book didn't conclude as well as I'd liked, because a few of the minor characters weren't really tied up. But the major characters were all great. Lu Tze, the monk that played the important part in Small Gods, should be a character we'll enjoy seeing again in future books. Susan is spot-on her usual personality, harassing the mortals she's forced to interact with on a daily basis. Death spends some time chasing down his fellow Horsemen. And the Death of Rats is there mainly because (a) he's how Death always contacts Susan, and (b) to make a not-too-subtle "hickory dickory dock" joke halfway through the book.
Susan's first apperance in Soul Music was a bit of a disappointment, but her role here, like in Hogfather previously, is perfectly suited to her. Death is a fun character, but he lacks personality by his very nature. Susan acting on his behalf is much more enjoyable. More books with her will be welcome in the Pratchett audience, and this one's worth the purchase.
Cartoon! (Score:2)
Well, your fingers weave quick minarets; Speak in secret alphabets;
Shouldn't that be (Score:4)
Well, your fingers weave quick minarets; Speak in secret alphabets;
Try Canadian, instead (if living in US) (Score:2)
I see the Statesider covers occasionally in used bookstores and wonder where people are getting them, since all the fresh ones have always been Kirbys.
Ordering Canadian should be really cheap, considering our drowning dollar and the fact that Corgi Canada now prints the paperbacks, reducing cover price (we used to get pbs from the UK, too).
I'll recommend White Dwarf Books [deadwrite.com] (never mail-ordered from them, but they're in Vancouver and I've bought from the store) and Nebula Books [nebulabooks.com] in Montreal (haven't ordered from them either, but emailed an inquiry once and got prompt, polite response), they've an entire page devoted to Pratchett, with cover gallery. Hope this helps.
The Science Of Discworld (Score:3)
Chapters alternate: One chapter has Rincewind and the other wizards tinkering with an experiment gone wrong that's turned in to an explorable solar system, the next has a real world science explanation of the concepts. There's just something about mixing in Discworld ridiculousness that makes the science more memorable.
The beloved Hex also turns up (Obligatory /. comment: Gee, imagine if I had a Hex cluster!), with it gaining insights in to the future. As a result it starts getting messages along the lines of "Make money fast!" "Send $1 to each of these five people and you'll make $millions" etc. I guess some things never change then.
Title: The Science Of Discworld.
Authors: Terry Pratchett, Lian Stewart & Jack Cohen
ISBN: 0 09 187477 7
Publisher: EBURY PRESS Pages: 368
Dang! (Score:2)
One more for the shopping list.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Re:Damn, its not fair (Score:2)
He did plan to return to the series at some point, but if that meant another book like Mostly Harmless, I'd rather he pursued projects he felt less obligated to do.
One can only imagine the pressure upon Harper Lee, to write a sequel to To Kill A Mockingbird. Small reason she has chosen to live a quiet life, away from the clammoring masses. Terry obviously enjoys writing, as there's plenty of humor and stories move along pretty well. Although, I do feel in the waning pages of each book (I've read about 12 consecutively, now) that they're a bit dry at the end and he may be making some point. Still, lots of fun to read, and Death and Death of Rats (yeah, i got it wrong in a prev. post, mind on code, not on reading) are humourous personifications as many are in Discworld.
Ford was about the only funny character in DNA's books, Zaphod was a jerk, Arthur was a bore, and Marvin was a bit fun, but that's about it. I liked the HH series for where it took my imagination and for that I'm still grateful. Otherwise, I'd probably be rejecting story submissions on /.
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Re:good book-COVERS (Score:2)
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Re:Dang! Just dropped an order at Amazon.co.uk (Score:2)
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Re:The types of Death (Score:2)
Hmm. Don't suppose the dog could be Gaspode...
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Re:My favourite book in the discworld series. (Score:2)
I can just see Bill harvesting wheat stalks, one at a time... :-)
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Death of Mice! (Score:4)
The troll reached for his keyboard, as he had a thousand times before, but something was different as his hands passed right through the letters f-r-i-s-t-p-s-o-t. He tried again and then noticed the head leaning off to one side. SQUEAK!
"Um, d00d, y3r a r4t!"
IKK IKK IKK SQUEAK!
"Uh, wh0's t00, bu5y t0 b3 h3r3?"
SQUEAK SQUEAK IKK EEK!
"N0 way! I d1dn't th1nk j00 c0uld d13 fr0m n3g m0d p01nt5!"
-- .sig are belong to us!
All your
Momo (Score:2)
In Momo, a small girl and her turtle stop the time thieves who hoard people's time in their grey vaults and smoke it in their cigars...and so on...
Satire? Hm. Okay, a very friendly suburban version of satire, nothing hurtful or mean. No slashdot trolls anywhere...
For satire, I really prefer Robert Rankin - 'Armageddon, the Musical' or 'A Dog Called Demolition' or 'Sex and Drugs and Sausage Rolls.' More in the vein of Monty Python.
Pyramids (Score:2)
Best Pratchett's put out in a while... (Score:3)
The characters, while many of them appeared in previous books, are all quite nicely fleshed out in this one. Susan was flat in 'Soul Music' and at best a cardboard cutout in 'Hogfather', but she really takes on quite a bit of depth in this one. Other characters, most notably Lady LeJean, are entertaining to read and are not jokey as much as they are dynamic. Lu Tze is a little over the top and Jeffery and Lobsang didn't nearly get the time they deserved, however.
This is probably because Pratchet has a bad habit of not giving equal dialogue or internal monologue to some of his characters. For example, Sam Vimes internal monologue will comprise a good fifth of any given watch book, and Angua will get quite a bit too. Carrot Ironfoundersson's internal monologue, like Lobsang and Jeffery's is never indicated, and their thoughts are *only* shown by their actions and dialogue. This would be okay if Pratchett did this consistently with all or just one of his characters.
All in all, 'Theif' is probably the best book Pratchet has written since 'Small Gods'. I would reccomend it for new and experienced Pratchett readers.
Now this is a review (Score:2)
--
If I had a sig, it would likely be here
"Thief of Time" (Score:4)
--MarkusQ