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Paper Stronger Than Cast Iron
Posted by
kdawson
on Mon Jun 09, 2008 10:20 PM
from the write-on dept.
from the write-on dept.
TaeKwonDood writes "All paper is made of cellulose, which at the nanoscale level is quite strong, but paper processing makes large, fragile fibers that break easily. Researchers in Sweden have have come up with a manufacturing process that keeps the fibers small, resulting in 'nanopaper' with over 1.6 times the tensile strength of cast iron (214 megapascals vs. 130 mPa). And since cellulose is the most abundant organic compound on the planet, it's cheap to use compared to other exotic, expensive-to-produce options — such as carbon nanotubes."
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Paper Stronger Than Cast Iron
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It's strong enough to build a ship (Score:5, Funny)
Re:It's strong enough to build a ship (Score:5, Funny)
I think Ding Ding Tssh is the new annoying yet lovable character in the next Star Wars film.
Parent
I always knew Paper was strong! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN (Score:5, Informative)
Awesome anime - did they ever do more?
Parent
Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:Iron Man's nemesis... PAPER MAN (Score:4, Funny)
That's paper BOY to you, buddy!
Now watch it, or I'll toss your Sunday edition up on the roof.
Parent
Re:Bow to my ninja skills (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Interesting)
I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible.
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Funny)
I can see a lot of uses for it even if it isn't. But I can see some fairly awe-inspiring ones if it's possible.
Guy 2: *lights match*
Robot: *FWOOOM*
Guy 1:
Parent
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Insightful)
Parent
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Interesting)
Interesting indeed.
Parent
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:4, Informative)
Other uses? Paper airplanes, coat it with plastic and make a really cheap fishing boat, tape that won't break, temporary floor, single-use knife, non-toxic circuit board for cheap toys... This is a breakthrough in the highest meaning of the word.
Parent
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Insightful)
I wouldn't sell it on its toxicity benefits though. The chemicals used to mask and etch pc boards are none too friendly and most paper is absorbent.
I wonder if anyone's tried injection molding short chain cellulose yet... it's better to use carbon we have on the surface already than to mine more and bring it into the surface ecosystem to stay.
Parent
Re:Great, but is it fireproof? (Score:5, Interesting)
Saturated paper products: Tar paper, sheetrock, and other products that are basically using paper to contain some other product, etc.
Non-saturated: string spindles et al, books, food and product packaging materials, shipping materials...
If it turns out that thicker pieces constructed with pressure or other methods, perhaps we'll finally get a throwaway computer or dvr case? Perhaps we'll find that a lot of carbon based plastics might be better created with nanopaper processes? How much oil would that save? How much cleaner could commercial enterprises become?
There are a lot of things that paper is only just a bit less suitable than some other product that creates pollution or distributes toxins either during creation or after it's use.
Obviously, I'm not the expert, but if this can make some of that come true it will be a very good thing.
Parent
Perfect application (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Milli-pascal? (Score:5, Informative)
214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit) is about 1.6*10^9 more than 130 millipascal. Use your units properly.
Re:Milli-pascal? (Score:5, Informative)
Also most steels are above 400 MPa (some as high as 1800) so this isn't that strong, in fact Aluminum alloys can reach into the 400 MPa range.
Cast Iron (in its 2 major forms grey & white cast) is very brittle and therefore does not have good tensile strength. However compressive strength and its good vibration tolerance is why a lot of large machining equipment uses a cast iron base.
Parent
Re:Milli-pascal? (Score:5, Funny)
IEC 60027-2 : making life easier for everyone since 1999.
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Re:Milli-pascal? (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
Re:Milli-pascal? (Score:5, Funny)
214 megapascal (singular, it's a unit)
Is that really a rule? Not one I was taught.
After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.
Maybe it's a rule. I'd rather not sound like a fool though.
Parent
Re:Milli-pascal? (Score:4, Interesting)
After I ran 6.2 kilometer yesterday, I was feeling thirsty. So I drank 1.6 liter of water. It took 37 minute to walk back to my car. I fired it up, and saw that the engine was already 52 degree from sitting in the hot sun. I got home, and collapsed from exhaustion. I slept an entire 9 hour.
Adjective vs. noun usage?
Parent
Papery (Score:5, Funny)
awesome - shredproof paper! (Score:5, Funny)
1.6 times (Score:5, Insightful)
Don't they realize... (Score:3, Insightful)
Re:Don't they realize... (Score:5, Informative)
Parent
Re:Don't they realize... (Score:5, Informative)
I think you might be two orders of magnitude off. Cast iron shows up as having around 130 to 200MPa (depending on your figures), concrete shows up at 3MPa. Having used it, cast iron can be pretty cheesy stuff. But I imagine that strength-to-weight is pretty good.
Parent
Oh, great... (Score:5, Funny)
hang on! (Score:5, Funny)
Re:Which is not much... (Score:5, Funny)
Parent
One point about grey cast iron (Score:5, Informative)
With the paper there is the advantage that small particle sizes dramaticly increase strength.
Ikea furniture was cheap before... (Score:4, Funny)
Fantastic!
cast iron? (Score:5, Informative)
Tm
Re:cast iron? (Score:5, Informative)
Think of a thin stationary engine housing with fins to dissipate heat -- you usually don't care if the fins are within 0.25" of where they're supposed to be; as long as air can pass over them they can do their job. As far as the important surfaces, such as the ones that hold the bearings or that mate with another housing, sure, you'll have to machine those. But if you had to machine all those fins from a solid steel block, or cut a bunch and weld them all on, you'd easily spend three times the money on labor and tooling and have a part that doesn't last as long as a casting.
There are many different alloys of cast iron, and they each have their own set of properties. All are much harder than ordinary steels, and usually have excellent wear resistance. Some alloys allow for more intricate castings. Some are easier to machine. And some, such as white iron, are extremely brittle and almost worthless in tensile strength, but can be treated to crazy levels of hardness. It all depends on your application, and in which properties you require. Steel can't simply be "dropped-in" as a replacement material. Hell, sometimes you can't even substitute ductile cast iron for malleable cast iron.
And I wouldn't count on being able to substitute paper for cast iron, either!
Parent
Does this mean better, more useful origami? (Score:5, Funny)
Prior art (Score:3, Interesting)
rj
Cast iron is not very strong... (Score:3, Informative)
It seems aluminum alloy has about twice the tensile strength of cast iron. Ever tried to rip tinfoil? Not that difficult.
Side note: mPA is milipascals, not megapascals.
Cancer. (Score:3, Interesting)
Not really news (Score:5, Funny)
Re:First! (Score:3, Informative)
Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members. But if you have to hang something heavy, Wood is your friend.
Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters. Firefighters really dislike entering steel framed buildings, when fighting active fires because steel softens and collapses without warning, where as wood groans and snaps and gives ample warning that it is about to collapse.
Parent
Re:First! (Score:5, Informative)
No, steel does. That's why I-beams are steel, not wood. It's also why the cables in suspension bridges are steel, not wood poles.
Not a lot of our building techniques rely primarily on tensile strength, most rely on spanning gaps with weight bearing members.
And what determines how well you can span a gap? A combination of compressive and tensile strength. You need to revise your beam bending...
Tensile strength does come into play on collapsing structures, as weight bearing members are removed, and buildings end up hanging from their walls or rafters.
So what does some in to play? Probably a mixture of tensile and compressive strength, depending on what is failing and why.
Parent
Re:First! (Score:5, Insightful)
> wood. It's also why the cables in suspension
> bridges are steel, not wood poles.
The same weight of wood would be stronger.
Some respect has to be paid to longevity. Who would use wood suspension cables in termite country?
There are also problems of attaching wood to other objects. Hard to weld wood you know.
Parent
Re:First! (Score:5, Informative)
But not the same cross-sectional size.
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Re:First! (Score:5, Informative)
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What is Tensile Strength (Score:5, Informative)
Even when adjusting for weight, the tensile strength of wood isn't so great compared to S-glass or carbon fiber. And when adjusting for cross sectional area, the tensile strength of wood fares even worse because it has a lot of air in its pores.
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Re:What is Tensile Strength (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:First! (Score:4, Funny)
Parent
Re:First! (Score:4, Interesting)
apparently the nanobonds are more porous... would be nice to see some comparison statistics on the physical properties between nanopaper and regular paper per square inch say.
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Re:First! (Score:5, Informative)
>...wood has the highest tensile strength of any building material known to man based either on weight or cross sectional area.
I Think your estimate of wood is much too high. Wikipedia's article of tensile strength http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tensile_strength lists pine wood at 40 MPa I know there are some woods that are significantly stronger but still.
For comparison some other tensile strengths listed in MPa are:
Cast Iron 200
structural steel 400
steel piano wire 2500
Concrete 3
HDPE plastic 37
Aluminum Aloy 455
Glass 4710
Carbon fiber 5650
Carbon nanotubes 63000
Parent
Re:First! (Score:4, Funny)
The only conclusion I can come to is that I am superman
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Re:First! (Score:5, Funny)
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Re:First! (Score:4, Funny)
Well of course he didn't.
Had he taken any physics, he would know he couldn't fly. Tell me, then, what would have happened to Metropolis?
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Re:First! (Score:5, Funny)
However, if you etch a piece of metal, you can use it as a stamp to create numerous copies of the etching, and when you hit severe writers block, its much easier to kill yourself with a piece of tin than paper cuts.
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